Diary of a Working Woman
Passionate, hard-working, fearless Educationalist, Psychologist and mother, Johnette Barrett talks to a selection of working women who have gone through many challenging experiences, often having to undergo many conflicting roles. Johnette unravels the secrets of being a successful woman in today’s world.
Diary of a Working Woman
Eva's Journey: Navigating the Trials and Triumphs of Parenting Children with ADHD
The school can be a challenging environment for children with ADHD. Eva's experience with her son's school highlights the importance of advocacy and the need for understanding and support from educators. When hit with communication issues, safety concerns, and a lack of necessary movement breaks for her son, Eva had to step up. Her proactive approach and her ingenious way of explaining medication to her son - as a tool to access his superpower - are reflections of her creativity and adaptability in dealing with complex situations.
The diagnosis journey for Eva's oldest son proved to be another hurdle. The manifestation of ADHD and ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) in her son resulted in Eva having to fight even harder for her son's needs to be met. Yet, Eva's story is more than just a tale of struggle. It's a testament to her resilience, her innovative strategies like the 'survival kit' for teachers, and her focus on empathy and validation in her parenting. It's a story that promises to enlighten, empower, and inspire. So, gear up for an episode that's as heart-touching as it is informative, and join us on the journey with Eva.
A new podcast in which Johnette Barrett, educational psychologist, seeks out inspirational working women who have transformed their lives and that of others through their courageousness and compassion.
The conversations that follow are sometimes eye-opening, sometimes heart- breaking and sometimes humourous.
Diary of a Working Woman (DOAWW) is hosted by Buzzsprouts .com.
Email: diaryofaworkingwoman@yahoo.com
Instagram: doaww podcast
Website: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2227789
Hello, my name is Johnette Barrett and you're tuning in to Diary of a Working Woman or do a DOA-W-W. I'm here today with Eva, who's going to be talking about living with children who have additional needs, and in this case it's attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Hi, eva, how are you? Hi?
Speaker 2:Johnette, good to see you.
Speaker 1:You look amazing. Oh, thank you. So, yes, so I think we're going to get straight into it. Eva, do you want to just share with our listeners a little bit, a bit of background? Sure About you, first of all.
Speaker 2:So we know who you are. I come from a really large family, number six of eight siblings, so quite a chaotic upbringing. I somehow managed to go to Exeter University where I studied Spanish and French, and then I didn't have a clue what to do till I somehow lagged my way into investment banking. What?
Speaker 1:the golden, sad as you do, as you do.
Speaker 2:And after a few years realized that that wasn't for me and decided I wanted to learn Italian. I studied Spanish and French, so then I somehow again lagged my way into getting a job in Italy, working for a diesel that Denny Brands. I was there for a couple of years and eventually I moved back to London, where I'm originally from, and now I have my three children.
Speaker 1:That's lovely but you have missed out something that I think is really powerful when I'm with you. So just a little bit of your own upbringing, because you said you're quite from a large family and I think I remember reading that you grew up quite locally and that because they're quite free for you and your house was quite busy and I think in your word you said a bit chaotic. You had children from all different cultures and your neighbours thought it was a children's family.
Speaker 2:They did my mum also used to foster, so we had foster children in the house, because my parents were not strict at all. They didn't really have a clue what we were getting up to, so everybody loved coming to our house because then they could just there were rules no boundaries, no boundaries.
Speaker 2:So I do sometimes wonder, if I'd been in a strict environment, how I would have coached, because I still now to say, generally don't like being told what to do, and I see that in my children and so I don't know if that's you know. They say it's your upbringing or your nature.
Speaker 1:Yes, the nature nurture. Exactly the nature nurture debate. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:I was slightly mad, having a lot of older sisters, so I was doing lots of things I shouldn't have been doing from quite a young age.
Speaker 1:And so now you can identify perhaps with your children. Now, yes, I'm not sure I should tell them what I'm going to. So if we just think a little bit about ADHD, had you any understanding about this neurodevelopmental disorder before one of your children was diagnosed with it?
Speaker 2:No, if I had, it was surface level, that it was people who were hyperactive. So I was with. My husband had ADHD because he's got so much energy, which is amazing now that we're getting older. So that was all I would have thought about it, or it was the stigma of naughty boys.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so tell me about the signs first of all. So one of your children. You've got three children, so who got the diagnosis first? Was this child number one?
Speaker 2:Unfortunately not Right. Child number one and two never got tired, never really wanted to go to bed, so we just kept them constantly active and we thought that was just like my husband, very sporty, very active, slightly unruly, which is really good for both of us. So we just didn't have it on our radar at all. My youngest was born. He was much bigger. He was very active, even in the womb. I remember sort of looking at my huge tummy and going will you stop kicking me? But still I just thought that that was just you know kiss, because we were kids and we were busy and active. I just thought that was just standard kitty behaviour.
Speaker 2:But I remember when my youngest would be on a changing man. He could crawl, he couldn't walk. It was a. It was like trying to change an octopus. It was a two person job. He would not lie, still for nothing. And when he was in a push chair and he could walk, if I would just turn my head to check out whatever was on the aisle I'd look around. He was gone. He was a little hoody, he'd got out, he did not want to be contained. So there were signs, but still ADHD not on my radar when he started nursery. He's a summer baby. One of the nursery assistants approached me and said look, I think he's possibly got sensory processing.
Speaker 2:And that was the first time anyone had made us aware of any sort of diversity in them.
Speaker 1:Do you want me to just explain to people what sensory processing means? So the most common form of sensory processing disorder is sensory modulation disorder, and it indicates trouble regulating responses to stimulation. So people with it are either under or over responsive, since the nervous system doesn't actually know what to pay attention to in terms of stimuli. So it may lead to some abnormal sensory seeking or hiding from stimulation. So symptoms can include, for example, thinking that clothing is too scratchy or too itchy, thinking that the lights are too bright, that the noise is too loud, avoiding certain food textures appearing a bit clumsy. So did you see any of those signs?
Speaker 2:Yes, most of that list tick, tick, tick. The socks without seams, certain clothes he just will not wear. So we don't push it in that aspect. Being clumsy, that kind of overlaps a little bit with the age because it's the impulsivity so it would possibly have appeared anyway. The reason she had noticed it was he was chewing constantly, he was eating constantly and that was his way of self-regulating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So, and was it eating food, or some non-edible items as well?
Speaker 2:No, not non-edible crunchy items. So he's always got a couple of apples in his pocket. He's now evolved onto kind of anything really Anything that he can just keep choo-choo-chooing. So of all my children, I've managed to avoid feelings, but he's the first to get away, so constantly seeking that sensory feedback through his mouth.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:But it would also manifest in his sort of risk-taking, which again overlapped with ADHD, which would be so we took him to an occupational therapist. So because he was a summer baby, I loved to. You know, I missed him when he went to school, so I would take him out at any opportunity and we'd pay a huge amount of money to an occupational therapist for him to swing on ropes, climb through tunnels, bash things, and that would help him come out from that absolutely on cloud night. Yeah, To all his needs of being met.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, so you notice this. And what were teachers saying? So that was nursery, then he went on to school. Yes, so when did you first or the teachers maybe start to think hmm, this is a little bit more than child being very active.
Speaker 2:Yes, it was. He had that behaviour, but then separately there would be behaviour where he would say, on a climbing frame, and he loved to, just with his arms hanging down from the monkey bars and he'd just stayed there for a very long time. He just loved that feeling of hanging and swinging and other kids would want a turn. Yeah, and his turn-taking wasn't spectacular. If it ever would get physical at that age as it does. You can't quite verbalise to them, you can't reason with them, so he would get upset and then he would end up bashing someone. Yeah, and so he was, I suspect. Well, I know in the parents' minds he was just the naughty boy. Yeah, but often if he was left alone, if no one corners him, if anyone lets him be himself, he's not actually going around looking to bash people. He's in response to being cornered or, in his mind, sort of feeling threatened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Or not allowed to do what he really, really needs to do. So that sort of happened at nursery, when I was aware of the fact that I wasn't hugely aware, the sensation was that certain parents were giving him a wide berth.
Speaker 2:That must have been painful for you, oh it's really awful because, yes, he is impulsive and, you know, with me, even if he would get upset, he would hurt me, but I wouldn't take it personally and I would always think, okay, how do we get to this? What can I do in future to make sure we avoid these things that will lead him to feel distressed to the point where he's? Then you're seeing the tip of the iceberg, but actually underneath there's all these other things going on.
Speaker 1:So some of those other things. Would you say that even from a really young age, nursery age, there are signs of anxiety and social anxiety?
Speaker 2:No, no, I think such a young this is very sort of in his own world, oblivious, so he would think that he was friends with everybody, but then friends with him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so he'd perceive things very differently to our others. So when did it start to? So I can see it could start. It would have started to affect his social relationships with his peers at that age. Yeah, so he progressed to primary school. So reception, yes. When did it start to affect his learning?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. He's a bright boy, so I guess one of the reasons we didn't latch on to there being a learning difficulty or any difficulty was because he was very little effort. He was able to keep up with everything apart from his handwriting, which to this day hasn't really evolved beyond the sort of reception level in terms of appearance, and he's roughly how old he's 11.
Speaker 1:He's 11 now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so we were aware about his handwriting. But at that age again, the expectations are fairly low. Yeah, so we were, and he was some of born, right, and he was some of born. So there was a certain amount of leeway where you think it needs time to improve. So actually nothing extra was done. He could read from an early age quite advanced books. He could speak about them in quite an intelligent fashion. But you're asking to write something down and he wouldn't even get you on the title. But it was the school work really on it.
Speaker 1:Did you find that there were more focused on his behavior than the impact on his learning, or what was what concerned them, or whether just not aware that there were any difficulties at all?
Speaker 2:At that stage, when there had been an incident, I think in reception, someone tried to take something from him and it ends up with him hitting the kid. The kid pushed him, he hit back and he would be the one getting the blame. So we came on their radar for the behavior, right, but in terms of the learning they weren't. It wasn't really an issue at that time. It was in the perception you're one age, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it was mainly the behavior. How did this play out in his own mind? I mean, did he see that children were avoiding him, that people, children didn't want to play with him?
Speaker 2:What was his?
Speaker 1:view of that situation.
Speaker 2:At that age? I don't think he was aware at all.
Speaker 1:So when did he become aware?
Speaker 2:That was probably later. I think Covid exacerbated it Right, because where he would, he's quite happy with general socializing. He didn't need a latch on to have a best friend. He's not that sort of child. So he would be happy going to school, hanging around. I would orchestrate some play dates, but then through lockdown, you know, there was not really anything happening. And that was when it became very apparent to him and to me actually the phone's not really. And then it was quite lucky that when he went back after Covid, covid didn't help in many ways because he needs help with his social interactions and not getting them made it even harder because he wasn't even getting the bare minimum then. So that's sort of delayed him even more.
Speaker 2:Year five, when he went back, the classes were mixed up, so the children perhaps he'd had a history with who wouldn't give him the time of day. He wasn't really with them anymore. He was sad about it because he thought they were still his friends. When they mixed up the classes. That all went very well until it became apparent that he was a unique character. He had a wobble cushion, he would have to sit near the door and assembly. There were things that were different about him which meant sorry God.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for those who aren't aware of what a wobble cushion is, what is a wobble?
Speaker 2:cushion. So I guess by this stage we kind of skipped a bit. He had in the incident from sort of year one up until Covid, which I think was year three and four. So between year one and two we started realising that because of impulsivity and inability to sit still, perhaps we should investigate further. So we were having appointments with pediatrics and he had what they called a working diagnosis of ADHD, because it wasn't 100% confirmed. So then they recommended strategies to put in place in school to help him. So they let him sit near the door of the assembly and his mind was particularly long-boring. He really absolutely. He was supposed to have movement breaks, which I don't think he really ever got. People in the playground were supposed to be aware of the fact that if he was swinging on the bars, maybe him a few extra minutes, obviously, you can take turns.
Speaker 1:Don't push in things like that. And yeah, he just needs that extra time to regulate his feelings and emotions.
Speaker 2:And basically just be handled with a little bit more patience and kindness. So, yes, what was the question again?
Speaker 1:So I was just thinking at what stage he, at what stage the teachers were aware that there was a problem. Really, yes.
Speaker 2:So there was no proper awareness of a problem, I think until year four where he had I think straight after Covid gone back to school. In this school he goes the younger you are, the lovelier your teacher. As you get older you get. Is that normal, I said? He suddenly went from having these beautiful, caring, attentive, patient, lovely teachers to great teachers who were just much more matter of fact about things and treat everybody to say so, the partial side of things.
Speaker 1:they were more tenderness, wasn't sort of there.
Speaker 2:Completely maturation. So I came to collect him one day from school and you know, you get that look. You might not know but.
Speaker 2:If you have children at the concert, you think, oh, can I have a word? And your heart sinks. And I got that look and said, oh god, and there had been an incident at school where he had been climbing on something and hadn't wanted to get down and this teacher hadn't been fully briefed, probably due to the Covid lapse having not been able to see him. If you're in school, teachers know the characters because they've been absent. He wasn't so well known and they hadn't done proper briefing at the start of the year and this teacher had gone right up into his face and shouted at him and tried to sort of literally walk him off.
Speaker 2:And he didn't take well to that and he immediately sort of lashed out with his foot and I think he would say no, no, no, I didn't kick, it was a push with my foot.
Speaker 2:That's the way you see that he was saying get away from these and obviously they all hell broke loose, because you can't go around kicking teachers, quite rightly. But then the way they managed it they had gone off to class, they had come in, they had called him out in front of class and humiliated him, pulled him to one side and they openly punished him in front of everybody, so he was in total distress. I would call it a panic attack rather than a tantrum.
Speaker 2:So when he saw me he bolted because they tried to keep him behind the door, because at that time at Covid you had to line up you couldn't go into the table. You had to line up outside so he had bolted. And then I also had another child I needed to collect, I had a big bike and all these things I was trying to manage and I had to sort of grab him and he was having a total and utter meltdown. It was heartbreaking.
Speaker 1:And meanwhile this teacher, who's called now the head, the deputy head and head to select him on his poor behavior. So you've got three members of the senior leadership team trying to talk to you while your child is having a meltdown, and you've got another child in the road.
Speaker 2:Yeah luckily, it was like the start of school, so you were supposed to be in front of all your peers, having a meltdown having parents little kids and my middle child, who's blessed her lovely. He was doing her best to be the parent to him while they were trying to sort of engage you in that conversation, yes, in that conversation. No forewarning, no call from the school. So completely mismanaged, and to this day he remembers that incident as really traumatic.
Speaker 1:And you clearly remember that also. So what do you think with hindsight, how would you have liked them to have managed it?
Speaker 2:So this is interesting because I think I was saying earlier that I found this very long printout where I had realized, if I wanted him to have his needs met, I couldn't sit back and expect them to do it. And that was a turning point for me.
Speaker 1:That's a turning point and we're going to stop there for a break. We'll be right back. Hi, eva, we're back again. So you just said that was the turning point.
Speaker 2:Yes, that was where I realized I had to actually, like you said, be his advocate, and that really changed my mindset. I'm not someone who likes confrontation. I don't really like telling people in authority what to do, so I had to really sort of get out of my comfort zone. But I would do that to defend my child, because that was my motivation for that. So, yeah, I'm just going to quickly have a look at this. So before I met them because I knew that I would face to face, I would struggle to be quite so demanding. So I sent them an email with a sort of highlighting the list of things that should have been happening or that I wanted to happen.
Speaker 2:So what this happens, kind of towards the beginning of the year.
Speaker 2:So I highlighted some of the fact, that being, to begin with, the lack of support during lockdown, the lack of a response at the start of the year to evaluate him, see where he is and what his needs might be, and I asked them to let you know had they discussed with all the staff in the playground about his needs and how to respond to him.
Speaker 2:I highlighted the fact that they'd failed to keep him safe at pick up. They'd let him out of the gates and they shouldn't have done that, because that then led to, you know, kind of the humiliation front of the school community. I've discussed with them the procedure for how they would communicate his behaviour to me. So ring me in advance, let me know, so that I'm prepared, so that I can then sort of go to school, find a private place to talk to them. They're not going to do that and do the issue and also the fact that while he was in school he wasn't being given movement breaks or any measures to help himself regulate. I hadn't had any parents evening or any discussion with them at the end of the prior previous term or the beginning. So it was more about me letting them know I'm not going to have this anymore.
Speaker 1:So I was a lot more on it, absolutely so how did you prepare yourself? Because that's really good. It takes a certain level of assertiveness, isn't it, yes, to go into face-to-foretive figures and say well, wait a minute, I know you're the educators, but I can see that things are not working as smoothly as they need to be for my son. You're letting him down in a way, on lots of different levels, exactly. How did they?
Speaker 2:take that. Well, they've been a change of leadership at the school. It was all very new, whereas I'd had I'd been helping at school for years. I knew most teachers there being a big change, so it did feel quite confrontational. But I guess After what I realized from speaking of them that they weren't going to offer up help if you didn't ask for it. But also because we still have the working diagnosis of ADHD, I needed to actually think okay, looking at how Cassis has responded to this incident, I need to push that as well on the external side.
Speaker 2:So, following on from this incident, I then followed up with the pediatrics at the hospital and Discussed the behaviors since lockdown, as it's going back to school, and then we got an official confirmed diagnosis, and part of it for me was where I'd never considered medication or something. You know. My kids say to me stop buying all this organic crap. I'm really of that ilk that wants them to have the best, the best thing that I didn't have. I do on a lot of fans and coke, yeah. So I was really against medication, yeah. But then I started to see that this is the only way that I can keep Cassis safe in school, because if he has more incidents like this than he's suffering. Yeah, okay, so then we started him on medication, yeah, and that actually was quite life-changing it was like changing, like changing genuinely right.
Speaker 1:So so you've gone. You had these sort of preliminary.
Speaker 2:Diagnosis.
Speaker 1:So you sort of got your head around it. Presumably by that stage yes, red, all about it and the fact that it symptoms are hyperactivity and, yeah, tension and impulsiveness. And so, when you have to receive a form of diagnosis, you were faced with the option of whether or not to use medication, because some parents choose not to. Yes, hey, they're children. Yes, you decided to do that. So as your child in agreement with this. What was I mean? It's still quite young at the time, but was quite young.
Speaker 2:What did we describe? We call I think we called it his like Superpower pill or something like that. Yeah, so child-friendly, yeah, but I'm saying this basically you and we do see, he's actually like a superpower, but the the thing is, if people confront him or he's put in certain situations, that's his like kryptonite. This is a key to. So we explained to him that this is going to enable him to enhance his super power, which is that he's very bright and he can go into like hyper focus mode where he really can concentrate on things and work in an amazing way. So he's, Like I said, well, he's not someone who needs necessarily very, very close friendship with everybody. He's not a very need child. He's always just wanted to be free, yes, so this would actually give him the freedom that we know that. Then he knew that that behavior I created a real shift change right in the way his peers treated him.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So just could you just touch on a little bit of that, you know, because there'll be Dozens, if not hundreds of parents out there who can identify with this. So yeah, what was some of the most? Because children can be me, yeah, and sometimes it's unwittingly, they don't mean to be but they say insensitive things, you know that really hurt. So what were some of the things that were unique to his diagnosis that he was doing that other children probably wouldn't do?
Speaker 2:That drew attention to him. Oh, I mean socially. I think With a decision you can't make yourself do something you don't want to do, which is why you can have hyper focus on something You're interested and then other things you cannot focus on. So if his peers are playing a game and he should try and join in because he wants to Mix with his peers if he's not interested in that game he can't make himself follow. He can't follow other children where other people would you know, be flexible and get along For the sake of integrating, he can't. So he'd often be on his own if they were doing something he didn't want to do, yeah. Or if he was playing football in the playground, and you know young boys take football very seriously. My son is very active, good at sport, but not that driven and focused on on it. So he might be in the middle of a match and see a cat up a tree.
Speaker 1:And then it's important to pick it up and he's gone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're like. You know, you were supposed to be golden.
Speaker 1:I can see how they get pretty fresh for you. Yes, you know, yeah, yeah, during those structured games.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, all there were other things where there had been and this is building up whether he'd been incidents in the past when he, for example this is before his diagnosis. I've gone to taking him to the park with two friends. They've been playing in the woods with other kids With sticks, like jumping out and scaring, and one kid had had such a massive like it was like a tree trunk and he and luckily it wasn't Cassis, he, my youngest, did this, but the kid had basically bashed him on head with this massive branch. So first Cassis was distressed and upset and came running to me Absolutely, this is a big lump of said Distraught at this and he felt that so badly but that then that upsetness Transformed into anger, uncontrollable anger. Yeah, he had to find this kid, yeah, and he was going to kill him.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah.
Speaker 2:He then went to find his own big stick, became obsessed with Absolutely, and we were at the time we were at the park with two kids from school that he was, you know, trying to form a friendship. Yes, yes, and he's gone off around the entire park. I'm going to like waving this to, I think, and your parents. I think we laughed and you got it.
Speaker 2:Yes, I seen out of Benny Hill with me my flip-flops, trying to chase him out of the park and stop him, like or a British bulldog, where he's trying to get past you. Yes, yes, and you're trying to like a wrestling to the side.
Speaker 1:But he had it in his eyes.
Speaker 2:He's determined, he's determined and you can see the distance, the parents gathering up their children, trying to keep them safe. It's not funny, but it was but awful. Yeah, absolutely awful. And then when I did get him, he's in utter distress. How do I calm this kid down who's totally, utterly distressed? So those incidents work. You know, it's a small community word, gets around.
Speaker 1:So, and then the invitations to parties get a bit fewer. To say exactly yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so a couple of incidents like that and so even though now he'd gone on the medication it, it was kind of almost too late for him. It wasn't totally too late, but where he in, as I said, they mixed up classes but so he made friends with kids, but sooner or later those kids in the other classes would be like, well, I don't want to hang out with this kid, because actually I want to hang out with the cool kids and if I hang out with him.
Speaker 2:I'm going to get lumped in the do not touch.
Speaker 1:So he wasn't seeing his school. It was like someone who is different.
Speaker 2:Yeah just don't go near you, don't go near him Basically, yeah. And then suddenly these kids who he got on with had a lovely it was so sad great friendships with. They suddenly became aware of the bigger picture in the school and didn't want to get tarred with the same brush right and that was so.
Speaker 1:So how did that? How did that affect his self-esteem?
Speaker 2:um, yeah it. It meant that he, he became, he withdrew into himself, so he would go from reading. He loves reading, but he would choose to read because he knew that he wouldn't be included.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, um and again, that must be painful for parents to see that. Yeah, you know it's isolating himself Because of the fear of being rejected. Yes, which is what it is. Isn't it being rejected by your yeah?
Speaker 2:about your peers yeah.
Speaker 1:So I know you, um even you have another child with additional needs to honestly say a little bit better.
Speaker 2:So at the same time as all of this happening, we had the complication that my eldest, um, and my youngest Completely in utterly clash. And I had always thought with my eldest, who was very bright, had more self-control, but had other issues of not like also not. He didn't like being told what to do, um, but we always felt that his unruly behavior from a young age. You'd always hear his name stop, stop, stop, and he just repeat, repeat and he never listens you. We always thought that was because, um, um, he chose not to listen because with my youngest we always knew he kind of he couldn't, he would zone out. But we never gave that same leeway to my eldest because he presented so differently. Um, good at sports, would focus, would never leave again to go to a planetary, yeah, or look at a doll or something so important.
Speaker 1:See the tea wasn't.
Speaker 2:That wasn't there. Yeah, it was there. In other things behaviorally, um, or in how we treated other people a complete lack of patience, a lack of Um understanding other people's emotions, or not being able to read their faces and even know when they're upset, uh, constantly trying to get a reaction out of people. So quite unpleasant and unsociable behavior. But we didn't. We just thought that was his personality as opposed to anything else, um. But once with my youngest we were settled, we realized that he actually thrived within a structured environment. So the complete opposite of what I had grown up with and what I tried to let my Children have a freedom. Actually. Is that the opposite? It was the thing that he needed.
Speaker 1:That's really interesting. So how, how was that? For you I mean he was a complete 360, isn't it? Yes?
Speaker 2:a complete 360 because we're we're, you know, we're very free, sort of relaxed as a family.
Speaker 2:Um. So, having seen how that transformed my youngest, we started thinking about my eldest, who was. As he was getting older, you People thought that he would grow out of these behaviors and he wasn't growing out of them, and that's where we realized, actually, this is, this is actually something that's now seriously affecting his, his social interactions, his school behavior. So when he went, started secondary school, he'd always been difficult. Like you know, here we have the 11 plus and he. That was hugely impossible.
Speaker 2:I started grinding my teeth with the stress and trying to get my eldest to cooperate, and there's Absolute rigidity right in his attitude. Nothing at all. He, he would Right, he would do things that would harm himself to his own detriment, rather than being flexible.
Speaker 1:Right, so put yourself on.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yeah, not necessarily, not consciously, but just would not give in, no matter what. And then we started to realise in his reports I was looking at his reports and I went full geek and started doing an Excel spreadsheet and just said steady downwards slow from when you've gone to year seven to now he's in year 11. And then, looking across his reports, the frequency of the word lack, you know, inattention, no focus, distractable, distracting others. But as his performance results were going down, there was an increase in mentions of his behaviour.
Speaker 1:That's a very observant of you really to be able to track it in that level of detail.
Speaker 2:Which is when I thought, crikey, I've done him a disservice. I've been so focused on the youngest who was it was so much more obvious. This one has sort of slipped through. So we started, I think a year or so ago we tried. We started with the NHS assessment, which took a while, took quite some time and that came back as inconclusive. You basically fill in some forms and it's a bit like female hormone, depending on the time of the month.
Speaker 1:That you take it, you can get a ton of different responses, but it might have been a really good week when we filled them in.
Speaker 2:Maybe he's completely regulated, had lots of sports and settled at home and he's presenting fine, and then following week absolutely living hell at home. So it just sort of depends when you fill these in and like well as the teachers have to fill it in, and it could be a good week or a bad week. So it came back as inconclusive. And was this for ADHD? For ADHD, yeah. So I wasn't going to give up at that stage. So then I sent him off for a QB test, a QB, a QB test, which I didn't realise I shouldn't really have done in isolation, but I was just desperate to have more information. And what is QB? I don't actually know what it stands for, right, but it basically is more. They attach things to his head and around his skull to measure his impulses and to track his Right.
Speaker 1:So it's a senior developmental sort of neuro.
Speaker 2:Yes, it basically tracks likelihood for ADHD so they can score you based on your reactions to things that appear on the screen how quickly you're responding or how easily distracted you are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's like a brain assessment. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that came back as again an increased likelihood of ADHD, but not I think it was like 70%. It wasn't Some of the high practice. I think one of them came back I think I wrote it down at the time for hyperactivity 99%, and he came back on the 75%ile for impulsivity.
Speaker 1:Wow, so he was an increased likelihood. Yes.
Speaker 2:It wasn't exclusive. So then at that stage the avenue was to go private, which I think kind of loathed to do, but we did.
Speaker 1:And how long was the wait for that? Was he seen straight away?
Speaker 2:No, I mean the people you ask around for, friends and family, and everyone I was recommended had an 18 month waiting list, so we managed to find a psychiatrist who would do a Zoom, which I know some people say you shouldn't do. I'm not sure why that's frowned upon, but we did anyway. Yeah, and I felt that it would be enough to talk to my oldest and get a full assessment and that came back, interestingly enough, as ADHD, not as intense or as strong or as far down spectrum as my youngest, but also with a secondary diagnosis of ODD, which is Oppositional Defiance Disorder.
Speaker 1:Which is what you were suspecting all along, but without the terminology. Exactly Because, if you say, sort of any adult authority he likes to have his way.
Speaker 2:Yes, Exactly and the things that actually that we looked at with his ODD that there's a lot of overlap with ADHD, but in terms of behavior there were certain things that we weren't seeing in my youngest. He was definitely different. So things like arguing with authority, deliberately annoying others, blaming others for mistakes, easily irritated and losing temper, obviously home life quite difficult and such a shame.
Speaker 1:He's an absolutely lovely boy, super, super kind, but needs to be in viral where you have no expectations which isn't normal, which isn't, and I suppose, having a younger brother who has similar needs and some needs a bit different, I suppose to rub each other up the wrong way and that exacerbated his leanings towards having ODD.
Speaker 2:So it's a behavior that can become a disorder, and it becomes a disorder when it increases in a certain amount of frequency with no improvement or evolution in that behavior yes. Yes, yeah, it hasn't got a great problem. It's difficult to treat and to manage.
Speaker 1:How has he come to terms with his diagnosis? Both of those?
Speaker 2:Well, with the ADHD, he was delighted.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was delighted, absolutely. He was very label, because many people avoid labels and lots of parents say I don't want my child label, yes, I don't want that stigma, but yet he found it reassuring.
Speaker 2:Really reassuring. If I'm honest, he probably thought that it was great, he's got an excuse for his parents. Took him blame on the ladies.
Speaker 1:Again with the ODD. It's not me. Yeah, exactly Never taking responsibility, right?
Speaker 2:So I think for those reasons.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was quite happy to have him on set, and did he have similar problems in school then?
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was socially not as bad, probably because of being good at sports Sort of makes you a little bit popular, absolutely, especially with sports, I think yes, and he goes to a mixed school and he's going to hate me if he hears this, but I think he's very good looking, as most parents do If he had their children, so he would get a certain amount of attention. Yes, that you know. Probably he wouldn't have got otherwise. Yeah, so people were more forgiving of his behaviours.
Speaker 1:So it's physical appearance and it's forcing the prowess with two of his attributes that just seem to just change the way in which, perhaps, he was perceived by others. Yeah, totally yeah, which?
Speaker 2:is really interesting, isn't it? Yes, Because it makes it not acceptable, but it makes it. Oh, but look at how he doesn't look sweet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so they see the more positive side. Yeah, they see the sport. Yes, they see that it's good looking and people want to be with him.
Speaker 2:Yes, Because he's good looking, yes, and he's patient and he's polite with people Right as well, whereas my youngest, you know, is in his own world. He's not trying to be rude, but he won't necessarily engage my intellect or even respond to any questions that he may ask.
Speaker 1:Yes, so you know we're coming to the end now, eva, and you know it's just fascinating to listen to you just navigating through your own life. You know your own childhood, whether you had lots of siblings and you had this unstructured approach to life where it was. You know lots of children around, a lot of. You know a few boundaries and freedom, yeah, and having maybe those values that you thought you would have then pastal to your own children. As we do as parents, we pass our own values on to our children and then finding that actually some of those values are not consistent with what your children need. It's been really hard.
Speaker 2:I think my husband grew up in a similar vein, so we didn't have anything to fall back on. One of the things that really helped me when my youngest was first diagnosed and had this incident, I was referred via CAMHS for like a parents behavioural training intervention. So I had one-to-one sessions with a psychologist who, via Zoom, who was amazing, who enabled me to talk about the difficulties I've had with my youngest and develop strategies and together at the end of it we put together basically a almost like a, a survival kit A survival kit. So it was how to. If this happened, I would hand it out to any teacher that might have any involvement with my youngest. If you see he needs this, how to respond if he's doing this, what to do. And did they, did they accept that? Were they? They accepted whether or not they were walking around studying?
Speaker 1:it. No, no, no, but they were mindful of it. Yes, they had sight to it, which is really really good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and basically that gives you. It's like having a stamp of authority to say leave this kid be. The more you let them be themselves, the more you'll get out of them. So even like silly things like that, it sounds ridiculous. When we travel on the tube, my youngest will be on the bars.
Speaker 1:He'll check. There's no one either side of the doorway.
Speaker 2:Everyone on the tube is looking at him and he's just hanging from the bars and I can see people saying are you going to tell your child to get down? No, no, he's not harming anybody.
Speaker 1:Has anyone ever challenged you in that situation?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's another thing, dealing with other people's expectations, and before this the incident, I was constantly trying not to offend people. Or people say excuse me, you can have a word or something, this or whatever, and it's not in that voice, but in my head. That's how it works. And what they actually want from you is that you, for their benefit, publicly humiliate your child and force them to apologise. That won't do my child any good. I'm doing this. You want me to put on a show for your benefit, and what I know now is that I'm not putting on any shows. My interests are protecting my children and I'm really sorry if that offends you. So what I say now to parents is thank you for letting me know. I'm really sorry that's happened. I will deal with it at home with my child. It will be taken seriously.
Speaker 1:I will deal with it and do they accept?
Speaker 2:that Well, I've got no choice.
Speaker 1:No, it is interesting because you do see your travels, people just interjecting where you feel that a parent is not actually parenting your child in a certain situation. It is very difficult, and only you will know how to get the best out of your child, because you will know what your child's needs are. So, to end then, eva, could you just maybe share a few strategies that parents might use, maybe their parents out there who can identify with some of the signs and symptoms that you have shared, but not got a formal diagnosis.
Speaker 1:We know that the ADHD diagnosis is on an increase and the scores of adults being diagnosed at the moment with ADHD, so there's a lot more out there than previously, but what tips and strategies, what advice would you give to parents who might be struggling with their children's behaviour?
Speaker 2:I think one of the things that I do is and this is again sort of not my natural personality is try to be really organised. So to look ahead, look for any potential situations, road bumps that might appear in your child's path. And yes, maybe that makes me a helicopter parent, which is just so ironic. Given my upbringing, I never thought I would be like this. But I basically make sure that they are getting enough sleep, that they're eating, that they're getting enough downtime, that they're active. So I know that if they've had, because maybe socially, whereas I was out playing on the streets and I had all that social interaction, our kids can't get that. So in their evenings they're at a club. So it doesn't matter if they're not making amazing friends within that environment. They're with kids their own age and they're active.
Speaker 2:So if you're meeting their needs and also not agreeing to things, I don't do things anymore that I know are going to put them in a situation. I won't go to a formal dinner because if I do, I'll say, well, I'm just letting my child won't sit down, so possibly can we feed. I'll feed him beforehand and maybe I'll put him on his iPad. Sit him over there, he'll be as happy as Larry. Don't try and force him to conform to the way society as a whole expects you to, and if I don't force him to conform, then he can be himself and he's happy.
Speaker 1:So you're basically taking away the triggers, aren't you? Yes, you're taking away the managing, those intercedents to those behaviours. Yes, and I think that's a really, really good advice. And you know, everyone will have their own view of medication, but for you, the medication worked. For him, yes, and that was a bit. Was he more attentive in collections? How did it work?
Speaker 2:We noticed it at football, straight away where the coach was on, stayed in the box, stayed at the. He's been amazing. That's funny. That was where we knew. And, yeah, it didn't mean that he could focus in class. He was never disruptive in class, so that wasn't the huge thing, but he was definitely able to tolerate sitting down with the medication. So that's how we kind of knew that in my mind.
Speaker 2:If the medication makes you hyper, it's not for you. But if the medication is actually enabling you to receive the messages, to sit still and to do what you need to do, then it's satisfying a need that your body has. You're missing something and it's filling that in. So if you're, you know, that's why I was no longer against medication. If your child couldn't walk, you'd give them a wheelchair. It's giving them what they actually physically need.
Speaker 2:That and also, which is really hard, the hardest thing is being positive. So, especially with my eldest, positive reinforcement. So, because they suffer with their self esteem, never making them feel bad or putting them down, trying to find positive things to say, which my eldest absolutely loves. My youngest hates positive praise, absolutely hates it. So he'll kick you if you tell him give him a compliment. So it's about trying to let him know that you think he's amazing as he is, but without giving a compliment or anything. So it's about always looking for those opportunities to say something nice or, if they've made a mistake or they've not behaved well, to say you know, I'm really sorry that happens. I know you didn't mean it. Why do you think that happened? What was it that brought about that reaction, and how can we avoid that in the future? So it's letting them know that you're on their side, and that's the difference in traditional parenting, whereas you do what I say yes, yeah, I think that's amazing.
Speaker 1:So you're validating their feelings and emotions, you're validating those, you're trying to help them to see, perhaps, how their behavior might look to others, but also ensuring that they know that, no matter what happens, how he behaves, the love is still there, the care is still there, and you understand that behavior doesn't happen for no reason. There's always some sort of trigger that may not be visible at the time.
Speaker 2:There's always an antecedent, something Exactly, you know, especially with my eldest, because we thought he was behaving badly. I feel that we've made him think he's a bad person because we hadn't understood fully with the first child, not in experience. So obviously we were nice to him, but I think we could have been nicer. So that's, if I could look back or speak to myself, you know, maybe eight years ago I would say actually take a step back, try and think about where this is coming from.
Speaker 1:Yeah, brilliant, amazing. Thank you so much, eva. Now, at the end of my podcast, I like to ask all of my contributors just a little question, so you can either choose to share with us a piece of music that you might be listening to at the moment your favorite song, perhaps or maybe a book that has got you totally great.
Speaker 2:Oh well piece of music. I listened to David Rodigan. I listened to him Do you listen to David Rodigan?
Speaker 1:I do.
Speaker 2:So through this show there's an album I can't stop listening to which is Alicia Scott, which is Windrush Baby, and she's a Welsh, jamaican singer, songwriter, and her album is amazing. There's a couple of middle songs which I could skip, but mostly the whole album is just for.
Speaker 1:Alicia Scott and what's she?
Speaker 2:called Windrush Baby.
Speaker 1:Windrush Baby. Okay, you've heard it here, Thank you so much and the best of luck with your amazing family. Thank you, thank you.