Diary of a Working Woman
Passionate, hard-working, fearless Educationalist, Psychologist and mother, Johnette Barrett talks to a selection of working women who have gone through many challenging experiences, often having to undergo many conflicting roles. Johnette unravels the secrets of being a successful woman in today’s world.
Diary of a Working Woman
From Gambia to Cambridge: A Mother and Daughter's Journey
Moving between countries is never easy, especially for children. Jacqueline recounts Mariama's turbulent transition from the Gambia to the UK education system. Initially thriving in primary school, Mariama faced significant challenges in secondary education, where large class sizes, disrespectful behavior, and a detrimental school environment tested her academic and emotional resilience. This episode sheds light on the broader struggles faced by students in economically disadvantaged public schools and the pivotal role parental involvement plays in overcoming these hurdles.
Despite the discouragement from some educators, Mariama’s determination never wavered. With unwavering support from Jacqueline, she navigated the rigorous application process to top universities, even tackling unexpected challenges during interviews. Listen to how this mother-daughter duo confronted and overcame each obstacle, ultimately celebrating Mariama's offers from prestigious institutions like Cambridge. Their story is a testament to the power of perseverance, a supportive community, and the relentless pursuit of excellence. Join us for an episode that celebrates triumphs against all odds and inspires us to believe in ourselves.
A new podcast in which Johnette Barrett, educational psychologist, seeks out inspirational working women who have transformed their lives and that of others through their courageousness and compassion.
The conversations that follow are sometimes eye-opening, sometimes heart- breaking and sometimes humourous.
Diary of a Working Woman (DOAWW) is hosted by Buzzsprouts .com.
Email: diaryofaworkingwoman@yahoo.com
Instagram: doaww podcast
Website: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2227789
Hello, my name is Jonette Barrett and you're tuning in to Diary of a Working Woman, or DOA D-O-A-W-W. I'm here today with the gorgeous Jacqueline Mohamed and her beautiful daughter, mariama. Jacqueline is a senior interventions officer who works for local governments, supporting some of the most vulnerable young people that we have in this country. She counsels them, she mentors them and she provides a plethora of intervention to help them on their journey. Not only does Jacqueline spend her time devoting to helping vulnerable young children, she has raised two of her own very smart children single-handedly, as a single parent.
Speaker 2:Jacqueline is here today to share her personal story of what she did to ensure that her children got a place at top schools, and the lovely Mariam today has had an offer at one of the two most prestigious universities in this country, and I, for one, am very, very proud of her. So, jacqueline, I just want to hear more, and I'm sure everyone's going to want to hear more about your journey. So, first of all, could you just talk a little bit about you, about, maybe, your values, your personal values that were obviously gained when you grown up yourself as a child, because that's obviously what you've shared with your children once you have them yeah definitely well.
Speaker 3:Thank you first and foremost for having us here.
Speaker 3:Jelena it's an absolute honour that myself and my daughter, marion, is here with you today. It's a lovely opportunity, so thank you. What I would say about um, my bringing up? I came from, um, you know, a quite a huge kind of household. It's five of us. I have five siblings, my mom and dad and um. One thing my dad, especially especially my dad always taught us was to always reach for the stars, always reach up. And as a child I remember being maybe around eight or nine being in my garden. I lived in West Norwood, which is southeast London, and just looking up in the sky all the time and I always studied the sky and many people always say to me why are you looking up? I said because that's where great things happen. So I remember looking at the planes going past and I think my first role in terms of work I used to actually be a travel agent.
Speaker 3:I ran my own industry totally right now, so I always said I wanted to be up in these aircraft, and it was just so odd because I ended up being running my own business, and I did that for over 10 years and worked for many prestigious agents as well. This is before getting into the education system.
Speaker 2:So what were you doing in the travel space?
Speaker 3:Yes, in the travel space. I actually did tours. I did tours to places like Egypt, to Ghana, and I ran those and had people coming from America, from Barbados, Caribbean.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:And I did generally. You know your package holidays, your business travel holidays. It was a mixture of different kinds of travel aspects, which I did for quite a while, and met a mixture of different kinds of travel aspects, um, which I did for quite a while, and I met a lot of people. Traveled the world, managed to. You know most countries I've been to, um, I've been to maybe over about 50 to 60 different countries.
Speaker 2:It's safe to say that traveling is one of your hobbies, right, absolutely?
Speaker 3:absolutely so. I've been fortunate to cover most of the caribbean, to cover a lot of africa, um, european countries, etc. So, um, and also asia, which I absolutely adored, and I think traveling opens your mind and I've always said to myself that I wanted my children once having children to actually travel. Yeah, it's a, it's a mind opener. You meet different people, different cultures. Trying to cook food yeah, it's a, it's a mind opener. You meet different people, different cultures, trying to food. Just it's a whole different, different aspect of life when you're going from one place to another you're meeting people.
Speaker 3:You're seeing beautiful places and seeing amazing kind of like sights, and those sites open up your brain many times and makes you think to yourself.
Speaker 3:Wow, you know many people back in the UK. Many people sometimes don't even get to travel from A to B or from out of the city they're living in, and I think that actually helped me to ground me and give me a firm foundation in life, because I actually once, having my children children I said to myself I'm going to make certain that they travel at least once every single year. I I've ended up being a single mother, which was not planned and it never is never is.
Speaker 3:I should say never it barely is it barely is, and that was like a shock to the system. However, with the help of God, and who I rely on solely, and a lot of, he helped me through, and it really. Sometimes many people say how do you do it? How do you get to go away to all these lovely places with your children? Go to Cuba, go to Mexico, go to Jamaica? We try to go to really exclusive places. I'd Jamaica, you know, we try to go to really like exclusive places. Um, I'd say, you know what? It's not down to me, it's down to God. God is the one who actually pushes me and, you know, pushing me up to a height where I don't think about me, I don't think about the finances, I think about God. You know that this is going to happen. I don't know how it's going to happen, but we're going to make it happen together.
Speaker 2:So he's been my, he's been my thoughts, I think you've got that spiritual guide absolutely and then it seems to me that you've got the right mindset as well, and that mindset that's helped. I think your maybe your parents, as you said helped you to form that mindset by reaching for the stars. Yeah, and that's an amazing analogy, because you've actually, mariam, reached for the stars. We'll get to you soon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you've actually reached for the stars in your mindset and it's this notion of you know there's no limits. You know you've travelled, you've opened your eyes and you wanted that experience for your children. So you said you raised your children, you're a single mother, so what was that like? Navigating the the whole early childhood? How did you ensure that your children were ready for school.
Speaker 3:Very, very interesting question. What I'd say at the beginning? It was extremely difficult. It was very hard because both my children I've my grandma now is 18. My son's going to be 17 tomorrow 2nd of March.
Speaker 3:So they're one year apart and what I'd say when they're younger? I was thinking, wow, this is so difficult, how am I going to do it? But, as I said to you from the off, start with God in the forefront. He actually pushed me forward and I always said to myself myself I don't want my children wanted for anything. And I said, if I have to work doubly, triply, triply hard, yeah, I'm gonna do it and I'm gonna make certain that they don't feel that they've missed out on anything.
Speaker 3:Wow. So I had to be both mother and father at the same time?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And did you have four jobs, three or four jobs at once Sometimes?
Speaker 3:yeah, you know, I decided to move my children as well after a certain time, to Africa because I wanted to give them a foundation, I wanted them to see people the same colour as them, I wanted them to kind of like get an idea of the African culture as well, and by doing that it helped them. It helped them to excel and it helped them to propel as well, because and appreciate what life is all about, because it's not just living in the UK that had an understanding of seeing a bit of poverty.
Speaker 3:They, they, had an understanding of seeing a bit of poverty yeah they've had an understanding of seeing our black policemen, our black nurses, our black doctors being in a school which were black teachers. You know it really comes up raised aspirations.
Speaker 2:So that is literally say, raised your aspirations. Yeah, an interesting bit of research is that, um, you know where parents read to their children every night, every day. By the time a child has got to the age of five, if a parent has read to that child five, you know, five, six, seven times a week, by the time the child gets to school at the age of five, that child will have sort of learned over about 1.5 million words, compared to a child who's never had the um, the experience of having a parent read to them, for whatever reason. They will enter school at the age of five with only 5 000 words. So about 1.5 million words compared to 5 000 words a huge discrepancy. So you know how important. Obviously, your children are well-travelled. You're well-travelled. You have the mindset from a little girl. How important was books in your home when your children were growing?
Speaker 2:up Mariana's laughing here, mariana's laughing Go on Do you want to answer?
Speaker 4:You want to answer Mar to marry? Oh okay, so I've got new books experience of reading, maybe books books were everything we had.
Speaker 4:Um. So in the gambia, when, where we lived, um, for a certain amount of time, we had in the living room, we had this huge library, like it was this huge one and it was filled with books, like, honestly, more than 300 books minimum, more than that, over 500, etc. And it was just, it was just normality to read every single day. It was reading. Come back from school, go into our rooms, we read, have dinner. Be, we would sit down and have dinner, obviously, have conversations then afterwards, maybe in the living room, and we always, like I always had my book, like it sounds like an over exaggeration.
Speaker 4:I always had a book in my hand everywhere I went and obviously mommy made us read books that had people of our color. It was books that um were locally, um, they had local authors in that country and also were books that I remember. At a certain age we were not allowed to have picture books anymore it was.
Speaker 3:It was, it was hard labor, hard labor. A hard labor one is which because it's like no more pictures, girl, you need to go straight through those words. Yeah, so but yeah, books became very, very very different with literature books, and then we went to studying books yeah, autobiography, whatever we could get our hands on. Absolutely adore books. I'm a lover for books. Yeah, I think I must have spent over.
Speaker 2:I think. I think I don't know if the research would back me up, but you know, um, obviously I'm an educationist as well and I know that very often in this school, you know, the girls will veer more towards the books and literacy than boys, and boys may not always like reading. I'm not saying that not all girls like reading, I know not all girls do like reading, but, um, I think, in comparison, more girls probably are stronger in reading or enjoy reading more so than boys do. So you've got a girl and a boy what are the differences?
Speaker 2:you were surrounded with all these books how?
Speaker 3:did that pass how do you love to read? Right now? My son, he loves to read and during the Covid actually, I remember I must have brought him about a sequence of books, about 15 books in the whole sequence and he read them and then read them again, and then read them three times, so I had to go and actually buy him another set of books again, and that's a boy child.
Speaker 3:So when they were younger and I'm glad you pointed this out I used to read to them every single night, every single night. And sometimes that's a make up story. I'm quite creative. So sometimes I say what do you want me to read to you about? And I remember them being as young as maybe two or two and a half. It's like um, can you tell me a story about a star and maybe a moon? And I'd just come up with. One day there was a star and a moon and they spoke together and you know, and they're mesmerized yeah, exactly, and it was just so amazing.
Speaker 3:And I remember, as soon as they wrote, they said how did you come up with that story, mother? I said I don't know, you know, but that's a love. I love reading, I love writing, I love writing poetry. My daughter now she's overtaken me with her poetry writing. She's a spoken word artist as well, so she's done.
Speaker 2:She loves it, so let's just walk us through so age of five. You've gone into school and obviously your head's full of language and words and literature and worldly knowledge. You've got that general knowledge as well, again for your travelling experience and experience with a different culture and all of that as well. So you've had a head start in a way.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm going to stop you there, Jeanette, if you don't mind.
Speaker 2:Well, I do what.
Speaker 3:I'm going to stop you there, jeanette, if you don't mind, I do what I'm going to say. Mariamah and Hakeem they actually started school before five, right? So in Africa, the system is that you start from the age of three. So from the age of three, they were reading, they were writing, yeah, and they especially with Mariamah, their teachers say Jacqueline, your daughter's gift is that whatever you give her, she'll just master it. So that's what they kept on saying to me. They said are you saying you've not lived in France before? And I'm thinking no. And they turned around and I said why do you say that her French is like she's lived in France? Wow, very good language. At the age of three, why do you say that? She said her French is like she'd lived in France? Oh, wow, she's very good language. She's a good language. That's the age of three. Yeah, from the age of two, she was doing 1,000 pieces of Chico puzzle, wow, so very, very intelligent, very smart, yeah From two she read, she could read and my son at the same time.
Speaker 3:So I thought that was normal. But when coming back to UK I didn't realize that school started at five. I thought, what five? I was thinking well, what do people do before that?
Speaker 2:well, some go to nursery, some go to child minders, some go home. I didn't understand that aspect.
Speaker 3:But my children started very early and um, so when they come back to the UK and go to school they were kind of like pretty much yeah, so a little bit more advanced, yeah so, uh, so did they both go through the sort of mainstream medication system?
Speaker 2:absolutely yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So mainstream primary school, yeah. So what would teachers say about your performance at primary school looking back? Did you did that? Did you that gain that you had? Did you maintain that gain as you progress through primary school?
Speaker 4:yeah, primary school. Primary school was a positive, isn't it?
Speaker 1:obviously I've had a.
Speaker 4:I've had a journey.
Speaker 4:I must say I've had a journey through education where I've had good times and then bad times but then up to good times. But primary school we just were coming from um, the Gambia, where I was just so strong and I had so much and I was so excited to join the school etc and just like show off my knowledge wherever it seemed. It was really good and I had such a lovely teacher, miss Jones, who taught me she was amazing, etc. It was different because I came with the accent as well and I was very different. The way I had school and my life was so different to what it was in England. So it was really different, but it was.
Speaker 4:It was. I loved my primary school. I think they really pushed me and, yeah, and at that time I knew how I was. So the teachers used to push me and I used to be like, yeah, I know, I know. But then that went down after a certain amount of time, but it was through secondary school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well lots been written about how, in particular, the black child can be very successful at primary school, and then there's a completely different story for some when they make that transition to secondary school. So tell us about your experiences of secondary school and what what happened so you had?
Speaker 2:you had great teachers who believed in you. Yeah, I've been need to hold on to that because you know again the data. The research shows us that when you have teachers and people of influence in your life who believe in your abilities and who push and encourage you, you're more likely to succeed. Um, so what happened at secondary?
Speaker 4:school. So yeah, then I moved to secondary school and it was different. I went to a school not far from where we moved to if you can name it oh no, no no, no and um, and it was. It was really big at the start. And, of course, secondary school is different, because now you have different subjects, isn't it? It's broken down into different subjects, different teachers, etc. And year seven from year seven um.
Speaker 4:I was okay yeah, I was doing well, I was okay. And then halfway through year seven, coming to the end of year seven that's when I started the school what we thought the school was was that it was. That's the thing that we have to recognize. What we thought of the school when we chose it was that it was going to push me, etc. And I was. I did really. I got really good satire results. So there was not an issue of getting into that school and we thought we saw the students at libraries, we saw the students outside the school and we thought, okay, this is a good training so this is a mainstream secondary school
Speaker 3:yeah, I've done my research, research with the local authority of like right. We want the best state school we can have got there. Did my research, thought, okay, this is the one. However, I remember my mum said oh my word, mother. I could not believe what some of the students were saying, and what she came back to me with made my heart shudder because, wording, swear words, you know, words which children should be speaking at the age of year seven.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, and she, her and my son were appalled by some of their behaviour and it's only because the behaviour where maybe they were brought up with in another country, you just didn't see that, so from the primary school. Some of the teachers come and say oh, your children are delightful. They shake my hands in the morning and you've never had that before and you're like yeah, you know so they're respectful very different.
Speaker 4:The classes were big. You've never had that before and you're like, yeah, you know, so they're respectful. They were very respectful, but it was very different very different the classes were big, yeah. And then it was the people and and at the start exactly, I would come home and be like mum. They said this, mum, they were accustomed to teacher mum, they were doing.
Speaker 3:Mum, they didn't do anything, mum, they just da, da, da da we don't.
Speaker 4:We actually don't have any teachers, it's just supply teachers coming in every day and then it was the thing, and it's funny because, you see, it's this is what I mean. I've, in my opinion, when it comes to economics, everything development economics, especially that's close to my heart. I think the schools is the problem, especially the public schools and the schools that are in areas where we, as black people, are in and we have no other choice but putting ourselves into these public schools, because this is where it just goes down, because I saw that behavior of that mommy. That's crazy. And then I tried to find the best people around me as friends but, um, the funny thing is it's you are who you hang around with. It tarnishes on you and it's crazy as much as I was an independent girl who was so hard working, I lost myself by year 8.
Speaker 2:I didn't even go to school with books.
Speaker 4:I didn't go to school with a bag. I had my pencil case in my pocket. That was my thing. I had it in my blanket.
Speaker 2:You were trying to conform. It was also normal?
Speaker 4:I obviously didn't. There was levels. I would never. I would never start shouting to a teacher or anything. But my behavior started to change and then, and obviously seeing other friends like friends used to get into fights, like fights were just no, we had, like at that school, two fights every day. I remember just running up the stairs to run to see the next fight and it's just like 24-7 and it's just repeated after school hanging out in groups doing knockdowns why were they fighting, do you think?
Speaker 2:do you think this is just the cycle of disadvantage? Is it that there's no aspirations? I mean, what are your thoughts as a parent and daughter?
Speaker 4:aspiration deficit. Firstly, yeah, aspiration daughter. What emotion does it? Firstly, yeah, definitely no aspiration.
Speaker 3:I remember the first day when we came to actually view the school and they had all the teachers we had to meet. I'll never forget this. One woman and it's a lovely black woman came up to me and she said oh, I've looked through marima's portfolio in the solar writing a poetry. She said this is a teacher in the school, mind you, who was working there. She said are you sure she whispered to my? You sure you'd like her to attend this school?
Speaker 1:I looked at her like sorry, I remember her name as well and I said to her. And I said sorry, but you're working here.
Speaker 3:She said I know. But she said your daughter doesn't belong to school like this. She said she belongs to another setting and I said but I thought this is the best school in my borough and she said you've got to do something about it. She looked in my eyes and she said do something about it. My heart started to beat and I'll never forget that woman and I can see her in my, you know, in my mind right now as we're speaking, because she looked at me seriously in my eyes and said your daughter will not fit in this school.
Speaker 2:Can we stop there? We're going to stop here at this pivotal point for a quick break, of course. Thank you, yes, okay. So we're back and, uh, I'm here for with jacqueline muhammad, and I love your daughter, mariamma, and we're talking about how to best prepare your children to take a place at a coveted university, um, later on in life. So, um, yeah, I think before the break, jacqueline, you were talking about how your daughter had a very successful preschool, um, and then she had a primary school was also very positive, but by the time you went to a um, your local secondary school, you were seeing behaviors from children, uh, at a level that you've never experienced in your life and, unfortunately, that started to impact your own attitude towards learning and your own behavior. So, jacqueline, I think you were about to say something about what you noticed about your, the behaviors that came home absolutely well what I started to see was my remember such a once from back.
Speaker 3:I thought what's going on here. She came home, became very sad some of the times looking upset her uniform. Such change in terms of she wasn't going out with her bag, she was just having her pencil case of stuff in her blazer. Just attitude, her looks, her aura, everything's that's changing. I thought what's going on? When I spoke to her she was quite rude in her approach to me and I thought hell, no, I thought this is not happening. So I then said to myself wait a minute, I've got to make a change here. And what kept on coming back was that same lady before who spoke to me, kept on saying and I saw her face saying your daughter did not belong in this environment. And that kept ringing my head and I'm thinking how can I? What can I do? What? You know, she was in year eight at that time. I'm thinking how can I make changes? And it really started to hurt within, to grate on you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the environment was changing her behaviour, behaviour at home she was being rude.
Speaker 3:Her brother started recognising it. She was in my face, yeah, almost wanting to fight, not like what you were seeing, because I was.
Speaker 4:It was like a defensive thing, because at school I had to put on that face yeah and defend yourself. Yeah, it was so much I had to defend myself. My I remember even one time I was just in the bathroom. I literally just went to toilet. I come out and this girl was right in my face and she had tissue that was wet and she just threw in my face. I remember and I go into a right in the bathroom just when I'm just going toilet, yeah and it's just the thing.
Speaker 4:If you show weakness, it was like they come for you. Yeah, and so it was a thing of I was defensive like at school, as a different kind of person I was. They always call me like a man because I would be with the boys like defensive so that no one would, no one would ever, no one would ever mess with me, yeah, and it's the thing of okay, but you know, when you what you take to school, I kept that presence until when I got home.
Speaker 4:So then when I got home I had that thing, yeah, and then it was, and then I'm forgetting who I'm talking to, I know now I see it as in I'm seeing you as one of them like which I shouldn't have ever so.
Speaker 3:So I think what happened, you know, to the end, was when mama got into a bit of a problem with a girl she was hanging around with and she was very nervous. I could see it and I could sense it, and I she said, mum, it just could be a, maybe a fight, thinking no way, I don't know fighting, and this girl was almost very jealous of me yeah but look at you.
Speaker 2:You're beautiful. You're gonna get it all your life.
Speaker 3:I got my room to talk to me, which was great, and she broke it down she's such, crying her eyes out. And I said I want to help you. She said how are you going to help? You're a mother. You don't bring mothers into these kind of situations. I said you know what? Leave it to me. I said I want to get hold of this young girl's mum. Make me speak to mum.
Speaker 3:And my daughter begged me please don't, please, don't talk big. You want to do mother to mother? Yeah, and she begged me because she didn't want to have people laughing at her and jumping her at school. But I thought, right, I've got to get into a different mode with mum. So I remember speaking to her mother this bully of a girl and just talking, you know, on a low key and her language, letting her know where I'm coming from and where your daughter's coming from and how, as children and as parents, we should not defend bad things and bad behaviour. And me and mum got along and we started speaking and mum promised that she can speak to her daughter. And then, all of a sudden, things started getting better and my mother came back and said you know what, mother, this girl's not brilliant like she. Right, you know, because there's rumors going past that there's gonna be a huge fight. Yeah, yeah, and you know nowadays as, yes, mums in secondary school, they're not the silly little fights, they're big, big things. Yes, of course of course.
Speaker 3:So after that I said right now I've got to make that move, I'm going to try and figure out which way to get her out of the school. And I remember telling my mum you are leaving that school. And she was so. She was like no, I'm not leaving, I'm staying. I said you are leaving and I it. And I said why would you want to be in a school which is not helping you, is making you worse? She cried, she fought, she tried everything, so I'm staying. And it was like about a week of push and pull until latter end of the week. I remember her coming up tearful saying you know what, mother, I think you're right. I do need to get out of that school and what year was this?
Speaker 2:still year 8.
Speaker 3:Still year 8, year 8 is one of those years where parents got to really listen and watch out for their children. Because year 7 nice, you know, it's a new school year 8 is that crucial year which I always say to parents listen, speak and watch what's going on with your child.
Speaker 2:So listen, speak and watch. So what did you do?
Speaker 1:so year eight was this like springtime, summertime.
Speaker 2:Where about when you decided to make?
Speaker 3:it was closest to summertime. Now this is where. Believe it, I'm not jeanette and I'm gonna share this because this is all part of the story as well. Please do, yes, please. Now. My son was playing hockey. My daughter got into hockey as well, and I remember they were. I always pushed her with sports. My daughter was also very um competitive runner, um athletic.
Speaker 3:She did long run long distance, so long distance running, and she was amazing at that, and you know she had a coach. Also, with hockey, we had our coaches for that. I remember one day they were going for a competition I think it was Great Britain. They had some. They had a. What's it the scheme? No, no, they had the scout, the scouts, right, yeah, they had some sc's it um the scheme? What? No, no, they had the scout scout, scouts, right, yeah, at the school.
Speaker 4:No, it was going to be a match at the club.
Speaker 3:So I remember being there and they had to kind of like compete against different schools and things like that. And I remember seeing these two another lovely children, very well disciplined, and they were against my children, so the girl and a boy and my girl and boy like playing against them. And at the end of the match they came up to me and shook my hand and said, oh lovely, meeting your children.
Speaker 3:This is hockey this is hockey and I thought to myself wow, I said you know a black boy and a black girl. I thought that's so beautiful, how beautiful is that? And I said when's your parent? And he pointed to this woman and I said oh, I want to go and say hi to your parent. So I went over to this woman and I said, oh, your children came up to me and I shook my hand and I shook my daughter's hands and I thought they were really well behaved and I love that and we got talking me and this parent and ended up talking and she said to me, what school did your child go to?
Speaker 3:and I told her and she said you need to get your children out of that school and you need to go to another school like a private school. And I thought, oh, it's too late now, they're in year eight. But I really love that. She said there's a name I need to give you, but you need to phone this person up and I said, oh, and they said, makes me call this name and you know.
Speaker 4:I know, I know, I know.
Speaker 3:Exactly, and that name, believe it or not, is your husband, Gary. So I didn't know. She just kept saying phone Gary up and.
Speaker 3:I said OK, and I took the number down. She said make certain you do. And I went just make this clear. And she said this man will help you and I said OK, thank you very much. But half-heartedly I was I'd like okay, who is this man? How's he gonna help me? Yeah, who's he about? But this woman was absolutely on top of her game. Yeah, she kept on saying to me over and over again make certain. She looked at me with those eyes and it reminded me of the same lady yes, in the school, in the school.
Speaker 3:Who said that? Your?
Speaker 1:daughter does not belong in the school.
Speaker 2:She doesn't, yeah so along the way you're having, there were supporters. Yes, you know people supporting angels.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I call them angels, so yeah, she came out and before I left she said remember, call that name up. And it just rang in my head and my daughter, my son, was in a carnaway home. They said you need to phone and I said okay. So the next day I called up and I spoke to Gary, mr Hay, and he was very gentle, very nice. I said, okay, your children, how are they very black and white? And I told them the ages. He said bring them down, have a look at them, you know. And oh, okay, and the story started to begin from there, whereas my children he wanted to find out where they were at school and I gave them a test, both Hakeem and my grandma, and said okay, we could take you on at our school, a little school down in Crystal Palace.
Speaker 3:And I thought OK, and at that time it was kind of difficult because as a single mother, there was payments and that and very kindly he said we'll work on something, but let's get your daughter sorted out. And I thought you know what, god, you're amazing. I thought this is absolutely maybe a chance, because what Mr Hay did, he gave me that little hope and he gave me that faith and he gave me that support and he gave me that kind of like foundation that it can happen. And I thought this is all I've got this woman, woman who I met, I met her beautiful children at this hockey match directed me to one area, and now this area. Now there's that hope and there's that foundation. So I'm thinking go with it, jacqueline, keep praying on it. And as the story goes on, mama, did you want to say anything about that story?
Speaker 4:Oh, the story, yeah, the teaching. And then I got introduced to another one who was Mr Hay, um, used to work with math. Um, uncle Fred, who I remember that test, and I did a test oh my god it was. I thought I aced it. I remember I was coming from college, I didn't do much studying at all and I didn't ace it at all. Like I got really really low percentage Really. But the only reason he said he I remember when he did and he looked at me and he was like man, you didn't, I couldn't even do a fraction question. It was that bad.
Speaker 2:I couldn't do question one. Yeah, you left primary school doing well doing well, and then?
Speaker 1:you went to second school, did two years, you'd gone right back to the bottom right back.
Speaker 4:I could never do question one, so we need to fast forward.
Speaker 2:I've just got my eye on the time, yeah, and and so so, end of year eight, you started um just getting different support outside of school tutoring to help you with your uh english and your maths and all the rest of it and then what happened? You applied for a different school.
Speaker 4:Yes, yeah, so I applied for different schools. I applied for JAGS, I applied for Roy Russell. Yeah, I only applied for two. Yeah, because we kept it was really.
Speaker 3:I remember at the time because there was a lot of paperwork so applying for private schools, and this is another. This is another. What's the word I'm going to use? It's a barrier For many people, because a lot of people don't want to do the hard work. Yes, Now I remember Mr Hay. He said to us you know these are options For one. You've got to find payment for these options as well, because you know a lot of people say, oh no, can't be bothered.
Speaker 3:there's a lot of different criterias as well, which you've got to read up on because you wanted to apply for bursaries so there's a lot of things which you have to do, but I was so determined to do it based on the situation my daughter was getting in and how she deteriorated from being up there to right rock bottom, so I said right, regardless of how it's going to happen, it's going to happen.
Speaker 3:So we pushed through and, by the grace of God, she managed to get into an excellent private school yeah, um, we were let down at first by another two which were quite sad, but I said yeah, and then, yeah, there was two, and then we ended up in um a different one, a different one and was that for year nine?
Speaker 2:so you went there for year nine and was that a different experience to your second year?
Speaker 4:because it was a boarding school. I was like whoa, basically coming from where I was, the majority, my um year, seven year, eight, full of black people there was maybe two or three white people, a lot of asians, blacks and asians.
Speaker 4:It was the majority. And going to this school where, whoa, it was only six in our year group and I was like how does that work? But there was six of us black girls and I was like wow, and it was just so different. Straight into it small classes, no more than 20 people in a class and so friendly, whole different. I had the way I had to speak.
Speaker 4:I felt like I kept my mouth quiet because I was like whoa I had to sit down and sit quiet and just observe, just before I make a mistake, and everything I say because it was just so different and the teachers, people respected the teachers and the teachers were teaching and it was the same teachers for every single lesson. Yeah, and I was like, oh, it's you again. So I was like and it was just, it was just fantastic to be able to build those relationships, exactly exactly which is fundamental, exactly which allowed me to prosper and go through my gcses etc.
Speaker 4:Even though we were. But then there was the buy of covid, so I only. Really. So coming from a public school, then going to a private school and a man of work was for me it was a lot of work, right it was so, so the expectations were higher.
Speaker 2:So much yeah, yeah, because it's really interesting state schools.
Speaker 4:They they teach you to be employed, whilst private schools teach you to be the employer.
Speaker 2:Employer right Employer Employer sorry, employer.
Speaker 4:Interesting, so it's so and so is the work was really a lot. And then COVID when I was only one year into this whole setting, then COVID came and I was like whoa had to do it at home, and then I learned how to become independent. I became much more independent.
Speaker 3:The love started changing. Big time certificate started coming in the ace stars and all of the grades started going.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's funny and then she's getting you know all different kind of um.
Speaker 3:You know opportunities yeah um, she was just being auditions for different things as well, because she was also part of an acting group, so you wereie you're an actor you're academic so you left the.
Speaker 2:You left that school with how many gcc's? What did you get, oh?
Speaker 4:I got um oh gosh, nine, nines, nine nines and two eights oh, wow nine
Speaker 2:red lines and two eights yeah that's a star, exactly.
Speaker 4:So what do you?
Speaker 2:put that down to. I've obviously done a lot of work. I put the craft.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I I take it to independent of just pushing myself. I just wanted to be better than what I saw myself as. Yeah, when it was a lot, because throughout my whole time I caught before after primary school teachers kind of devalued me even where also I can't say divided. I remember the report just before my exams because obviously exams started in may, my gcc's and they gave a report with your predicted in march and I remember because, mommy, I remember we got it and mommy was like my um because it was so bad they gave
Speaker 4:me so much b's and a's. They literally just said I was an, a student, like they gave him predominantly, so I took 11. So it was like maybe it was like eight, sevens, some b's and yeah, it never went any lower than a, b. It was b's and sevens, so sevens and sixes and I was like and I remember I was like her mummy was like you can do so much better than this, and and she was like why are you doing that square?
Speaker 4:and I was like mummy, I can, but throughout my whole time, like if we go through it, I've always been undervalued, devalued by the teachers so you're saying that the teachers, in terms of the expectations, were a bit lower for you, I think so regardless of how hard, you were working it will always. That's really interesting. And then when I got those results, it's crazy because then they put me everywhere.
Speaker 3:I was on the magazine they always shout me out all my friends who had feelings.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I came down.
Speaker 3:We opened up the envelope. We kind of like did a little prayer, opened that envelope for the results and then we looked at it and we were like wow. And then we had these photographers coming up to us and not to ask her.
Speaker 4:It was like oh, a success story until this day, I know that now, this day, they put posters in the school and everything just to say my mum was upset and do you think she said?
Speaker 3:what was she upset for? I said what's wrong and she said I wanted a nine, I wanted eleven. I wanted a nine for for the math and she got an eight and she got nine, and so she did have a tear. Yeah, you had a tear. You had how many nines?
Speaker 4:you had.
Speaker 2:But that, but that, just that's just testament to you as an individual, how your mother's engendered in you that reaching for the stars and expecting nothing lower than the stars, absolutely and you know, and even though you know, most people would look and think, my god, those are a remarkable set of grades, which they were. Hence the publicity and recognition that you got but the journey didn't stop there because you got those, and then what happened? So you then have sixth form so did you stay on. What happened then?
Speaker 4:no, I moved on why did you move? I moved on because I mean, I like the idea of a new place. You know, I like the idea of a challenge, going to different places, etc. And I think where Russell, it was good for that timing, I didn't want to. I wanted to move on new people, networking not only that, there's another reason why.
Speaker 3:Because, yeah, not only that, because at the time the head didn't actually give you a free placement to go on. Yeah, so we had offers by three other different top.
Speaker 2:Because you have to play again for the first three, however, when he realized that we got other offers he then turned around and phoned me personally yeah and said, oh, I bet.
Speaker 4:And said oh, and said you love Maria Medea and said that's another thing as well there's a lot of stuff we should forgot actually, however at that stage when he saw the competition that he actually put an offer.
Speaker 3:That was actually whatever you want what a position to be, so she had to be an option.
Speaker 2:So you opted to go out so what was your? Experience, like of year 12 and 13 you're in year 13 now.
Speaker 4:It was so different again. I changed to so much different schools.
Speaker 2:It was so different you don't have to mention the name of this current one it was firstly, it was like the ratio, so still another independent school and my brother is going to this school as well, so it's a boys school that goes.
Speaker 1:It was firstly was like the ratio, so still another independent school. Yeah, a new independent school and my brother is going to this school as well.
Speaker 4:So it was a boys' school that goes to a sixth form, mixed in the sixth form. So it was the ratio firstly was like 80 boys, 20 girls. I'm used to at my old school, through secondary school, the independent school, I was used to it being 50-50. There was a bit more girls than boys.
Speaker 2:So and then going into now being the minority and also the minority yeah because, there's 20 girls, 80 boys and then remember it's double, because yeah 13 and then basically the same thing, yeah and then me being the only.
Speaker 4:There's only two black girls in my year group, um, and now that the um, the year 13s, have left, now there's only three black girls throughout the whole of the sixth form how has that affected you, then, being such a minority in terms of your gender, but also in terms of your um, you know your race.
Speaker 2:How did it affect you? You know you're saying you noticed it yeah. Did it make you feel that you're gonna have to work doubly as hard to get the recognition? Because that has been your story, where you've had to work really hard and even so, some of the teachers didn't recognise your efforts so was that a similar story?
Speaker 4:were you worried about that? I was worried about that. I was worried about because I was so young. I had my group of girls in my old school. I'm coming here and I knew no one, absolutely no one. Yes, absolutely. I had no one by my side. At least I had. The only person I knew was my brother and I knew his friends. So I knew I knew the year 11s at that time, but I had no one. And then seeing, or looking around, it's a thing of when you have no one but looking around you can see that you couldn't have someone. But looking around, I'm like whoa, who is gonna be my someone? And then I did, through time, as okay, it was kind of probably what? Because I was the only, basically the only black girl in the year group. I don't want to say that. But the other girl I literally I've only had like two conversations with her because I don't see her she's, she hides herself. I don't know where she goes, but she had, she probably is not as confident as you but we're going
Speaker 2:to stop for another quick break, and then we've just got a last few minutes. We'll tie it all together. But what a remarkable story. And we haven't even got to the icing on the cake yet.
Speaker 3:Just one more minute, thank you.
Speaker 2:Okay. So I think we're back again and we're just going to go straight into your A-levels. So you're in this new environment where you're in a minority as a young black girl, but also a young black girl, and also in a minority as a girl as well as a female. So you've got your head down. You're working really hard. You've got your head down. You're working really hard. You've got the stage where you've had to start applying to uni. Tell us what that experience has been like. You're applying for universities, what sort of universities you decided to apply for, and perhaps the response from your teachers and how they supported you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so, of course, as I said, for my whole time I've always tried to challenge myself. It's just a thing that is just natural to me. I like to challenge myself. So and from year 11 I knew I wanted to do something. I've always changed my mind of what I want to do. I wanted to be a doctor, then I wanted to be a vet, then.
Speaker 4:I wanted to do business. Then I moved on to economics and then that's where, from year 11 onwards, I was like economics. I was like I'm gonna go and study economics, that is what I'm gonna do. I joined the school, I did economics, maths, geography and EPQ. My EPQ was on economics um, does a lack of wealth and childhood prevent success? And so throughout my whole time economical view and I was like when it came to but when you? When we joined the school, I joined the um, the, a group of people that is called the aspiration group of people who are aspiring to apply for cambridge or oxford wow.
Speaker 2:So before you go on, epq, for those who are not aware what is epq.
Speaker 4:So it's an extended project qualification where you do a 5 000 word essay talking about any answering any question in the world. You can answer. Anything is is the floor of floor. I mean you can answer. Most people do it on what they're interested in doing for university because it's a good conversation for interviews, etc.
Speaker 4:Exactly, exactly. So that's the reason and I was always interested in because, coming from a public school now going to private school, yes, the idea. Does wealth actually prevent success? A lack of wealth was really interesting to me, yeah, so, um, obviously I joined the aspirations um group and that was a thing of the Cambridge. We had different talks by different people, the people who got in previously, um, and it was interesting. So in my head I was like I'm gonna go and apply for and in my head.
Speaker 2:I said Cambridge.
Speaker 4:Mommy said she wanted me to go for Oxford.
Speaker 2:But I mean, I win, win, I will run and for cambridge, um, and so you applied for cambridge, yeah, did the other black girl in your group apply for cambridge? Oh, she did, I didn't know. Yeah, but when?
Speaker 4:I did the exam, because I did, we did a practice exam.
Speaker 2:I saw it in the hall and I was like, oh hey girl.
Speaker 4:So she did, but she, um, but she didn't actually go for it because we did the marks to see how applicable. We are right. Um, yes, and if I'm being honest, I wasn't. My results didn't prove that I shouldn't apply for it and it proved to her that she shouldn't apply for so she, you know she didn't.
Speaker 3:She gave up.
Speaker 4:But I'm not gonna get stopped yeah when you told me that it's not really um advised to apply, I was like, okay, then cool, but I will still apply.
Speaker 2:So who told you that it wasn't a good idea to apply?
Speaker 4:It was the head of the aspiration, but just because it was from the results, so that one, it was quantitative results. So from that I mean, I can't really argue anything about it because it was from trends. Um. So then, when it came to the university applications, I applied for cambridge for economics. This is at the start. I applied for cambridge economics.
Speaker 4:I applied for lsc for economics, I applied work for russell groups, yeah and um, but how it works, of course, before you send off your ucas as mocks to get your predicted grades, yeah, so I did those mocks and I aced the. Oh, those mocks. Oh, what a wicked thing. What a wicked thing. I aced the geography. That was fine a star there um, um economics, I got a star right excellent.
Speaker 4:And then the maths. I got a, b right, but all of the ones I applied for, yes, every single university except for loughborough and nottingham. I needed an, a star in maths right, so I got the b, but previously, in other exams, I was always in a star, yeah it was a bit it was it was a blip.
Speaker 4:So then, when it came to the thing, and um, I remember we got a report with the predictors and I think it's a, b, but my teacher should know that I am an a star student. Yes, and then I got those predictors and it was a star, a star, a, and I was like oh, okay, but I need an, a star in maths yeah, and I was like I need it, it's a mouse I'm gonna go and talk to them.
Speaker 4:I am an a star student, yes, and they, they just said no, they would not change it. And I was like, but that was that knocked out, my top three universities, just like that cambridge, warwick and um, lsc. Yeah, knocked out. And I and I remember I came out of the conversation with my teacher- and I literally just started crying.
Speaker 3:They contacted me. I remember they called me but however, I did say to my mum when she got home I said what you need to do is just focus on similar subjects, but we're going to reapply so, which she did. She was a bit upset the first hurdle, but after that we managed to reapply so, which she did. She was a bit upset the first hurdle, but after that we managed to get through. And the good thing about it, over the summer I said to her, just to give her a bit of encouragement, I said let's go to the African Caribbean Society, cambridge. And that was a bit of a hard journey as well, because when I saw the actual day advertised, it was the actual day when I actually saw it on a website and I said today you know this is the last day, or?
Speaker 3:oh no, I missed the last day and I thought, oh god, so I must have sent about 10 different emails to all different departments in Cambridge and I said we are going to get to this um event so there you are, the determination again, and my daughter was like, oh, it's too late, mother, and I said we are going to get to this event.
Speaker 2:So there you are the determination again, the determination, the persistence of determination, and my daughter was like, oh, it's too late, mother, and I said no, no, no, we are going to go there.
Speaker 3:So I kept on contacting and on the day we were due to actually travel for the following day, I said let's just book their coaches, just in case. They contacted me in the morning saying yes, yes, yes, we got a spot spot, so let's go. So we jumped on the coach, got down there and mariamma was a bit to be fair. Overwhelmed, yes, not necessarily my choice.
Speaker 4:Okay, well, don't think my choice, my top choice throughout this whole time. I didn't want to go for cambridge.
Speaker 2:My top choice was warwick I went for cambridge for the aspiration right um idea, but in my head I wanted work because I was tired. I was throughout the whole time. I was in um, but in my head I wanted work because I was tired.
Speaker 4:I was throughout the whole time. I was in schools, in my head. I was in schools where I was the minority. I was thinking Cambridge, is that actually gonna? I will be the minority and I don't think I would fit in and I knew how well, just straight away, you just had that, that.
Speaker 2:You set that limit in your own mind that. Cambridge isn't for people like me.
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely yeah. However, yeah, it was a. It was like a blessing to go down there on that day, because mama again had a little fight with me and I said it's gonna be beautiful, there's gonna be people like you. And she turned. I said nope, there's only gonna be about 10 or maybe about 20.
Speaker 3:And I said we got down there that day, when we wasn't supposed to get down there but, due to pure determination, got down there and we had the time of our lives. My room was there and we had the African Caribbean society there and there were just numbers in their numbers. They hosted us for the whole day, they took us around, they made us laugh, we played games, we had the whole day with them to ask questions and they were people just like Mariamma. They were people who looked like her, spoke with like her, they were people who came from South London, they were people from all over and they were so down to earth. And Mariamma turned around at the end of that day and she said to me Martha, I'm sorry, I really, really want to get to this place now. I really want to go to.
Speaker 2:Cambridge. So time is leaping on. So okay, so let's get it. So you've applied to Cambridge.
Speaker 4:Yeah, then, so that was so that was before I heard this bad news. So when I heard this bad news, that's why I had such um news really it's a good news. No, no no of the um grades where.
Speaker 2:I thought I could yeah, but then it's a disguise because yeah.
Speaker 4:I actually wanted to apply for land, so that's why I applied for land economy for Cambridge and I changed into more sustainable development with economics, which was what I always wanted to do in the first place.
Speaker 4:So then I applied for that um, and it was interesting, I applied, I did my thing, um, and I remember just and everyone, because the whole thing people really took those things seriously. I remember there was a date for when you get hair by interviews, like a week for interviews, and people didn't come to school because they were so nervous about that email and did you say that there was a teacher who said that you shouldn't apply?
Speaker 4:oh, yeah, yeah after I applied for it, after I got my predicted a star, a star a and I got and I applied for my university's ucas tent. I remember I went to the head of economics and he was like there's a not point, not, not, not one percent chance that you going to get in.
Speaker 1:It's straight to my face and I was like my goodness okay and I remember and are teachers still doing this?
Speaker 2:are teachers still doing this? Are teachers still doing this?
Speaker 4:my head didn't believe that I would be able to do it.
Speaker 2:So neither those people, those leaders, school leaders, in crucial positions they do in a position where they can inspire and motivate and encourage.
Speaker 3:They just looked at the raw data, the figures and said you're not going to get it, you're not going to get it, don't even bother.
Speaker 4:But there's a little right and it's funny. They say don't bother when they know I've applied for it so how's that supposed to make you feel?
Speaker 2:But it made you feel more determined then, and you had your mum on your side championing you and everybody else, and little did I, mum on your side chatting to you, and then you put the L and literally they know I've been through this through my old school of being undervalued.
Speaker 4:That's just. It's just gonna push me further, push me further. I remember at school and getting an email and I was like I was like I never get emails. Well, I get emails but it's always like ASOS, pretty little thing, sorry, robbie it's full of. Like the adverts and then I saw this email and it was from Cambridge, telling me that I got an interview and I didn't know what to say. I was like what?
Speaker 4:an interview and it was I was. So the difference was with me. Like everyone thought that no one really, even in the school, like all my friends were like I might reapply but they didn't really think I was gonna do it because everyone else who applied was. So I don't want to say, but they were so like it was, they were so frantic they would they had a different.
Speaker 2:Whilst I was chilled, I was like, yeah, whatever happens, happens, yeah. So because of the composure, they didn't say more grounded?
Speaker 4:yeah, but they didn't think that that was that kind of the attitude you needed to get in so when I got an interview, I could not believe it. I was like I am done, I have done it.
Speaker 2:If and when I got the interview at that time I also got into warwick as well which was my first choice, but then, obviously, when I visited cambridge I was like okay, I actually really want cambridge yeah, I didn't want to put that in my head, because when disappointment comes yeah I didn't want it to have me emotional exactly you went for the interview. It was very tough, it was very tough, it was so tough Were you there, mum, I was in the room.
Speaker 4:Did you go in the room? In the room? No, you're joking.
Speaker 3:Yes, did you go in the room? We had the choice of doing that interview at school that's a joke At school or at home. I said at home oh my goodness, she's at home.
Speaker 4:But what I did for the it's crazy.
Speaker 2:We went through I made a 10 page. I made 10 pages of questions and answers that they could ask me about economics.
Speaker 1:I just studied everything, the news, everything, yeah, and it's crazy, because I went in there, they didn't ask me one question just give us two questions that they asked you because I'm just, oh, my god, was it all about your?
Speaker 2:own personal journey? No, it's not, not at all, they didn't.
Speaker 4:They asked one question about my personal statement about the idea of behavioural economics and if consumers make rational choices, which I argued in my personal statement, we don't, so it was an interesting one to talk about, if I had time, I'll tell you more about it, but I don't.
Speaker 4:And then there was one they talked about. They talked about law a lot. This is what made me think I didn't do well, because it was law and I didn't do law. But land economy is economics mixed with law. But I thought they would focus on economics because I didn't do law at all, but they looked at there was 10 in the mall.
Speaker 3:They asked me about law of coincidence and also there was questions where Mariam actually did prepare a list of questions to ask. All she did a lot of research so she did she all of the people who were interviewing her she actually researched everything and then she actually had really deep, meaningful questions which I think really pushed her, and so you have to think outside the box.
Speaker 2:So there's absolutely out your comfort zone. You're going to law, you're not studying law, let's see how you do, which I think really pushed it, and so you had to think outside the box.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know what. Out of your comfort zone, you're going to law. You're not studying law.
Speaker 2:Let's see how you do, absolutely, but can you just give us the results? How did you?
Speaker 4:do. Well, I got. So work. I got in Nottingham, I got in Loughborough, I got in Bath I'm still waiting. And then I remember I was in maths. We got our maths test back. We did. Well, I was like, oh yeah, done. And you know what? It was the day that I knew it was coming out, because everyone knew the day that the results came out. So everyone was like check your emails, but I didn't tell mummy what the day was mummy had no clue.
Speaker 3:She didn't know it was in January, but she didn't know, when sneak preview sorry, just before she mentions that very very quick mum after the interview with Cambridge she went upstairs and she was in her bed crying.
Speaker 2:I cried before you opened the email. Oh, no, no, no this is my interview.
Speaker 3:She didn't realise that she'd done so well, but she cried. I said listen, it's not over.
Speaker 2:Till it's over, wait until what's meant for you won't pass you by exactly.
Speaker 4:So go on so I was in maths class, I was doing and I remember lisa said mario, check your email because my friend dylan, who's in my class. He got into oxford and I was like dylan, where did you? As a joke, I was like where did you get your email?
Speaker 4:and he was like around 9, 30, 10 o'clock. So I was like okay. So I remember it was like 9, 45 and lisa was like check your emails. That's my best friend. She was sitting next to me and I was like okay then. So then I refreshed my thing and there was nothing and I said great, but I didn't.
Speaker 1:I was blind because I was there and it was just on my phone and it was like my home.
Speaker 4:And then I saw it and it said university of cambridge. And I was like, oh my god, I opened it and it said that they, they're happy to give me an offer. God, I opened it and it said that they, they're happy to give me an offer. I literally screamed. I literally screamed, and then everyone screamed and my teacher was like what you know, it's funny. Yeah, they didn't believe in me at all. I was the only person to get into Cambridge out of my whole school, the one who they think didn't think not one.
Speaker 2:So the underdog rose exactly and all the teachers couldn't believe it. Well, let's say that's helped them to change their perception. You know, and to just believe because it you know.
Speaker 3:And to just believe it's about the power of self belief you believed in yourself, you put yourself out there and you worked hard. I just want to say congratulations thank you both for appearing on.
Speaker 2:It's been amazing. The time has flown, but you know, I just want to just aim by saying getting both of you just to give maybe your two best top tips for any parent out there who is having a hard time in the education system that they're currently in, be it independent or be it. You know the, the, the main sector, um, and they've got their sights set on a great university for their child. What would you? I'll get you first one. Okay, what were your top tips for young people? You know about aspirations and you know what you did.
Speaker 4:That really helped you yeah, I think the first one, because I will talk about self-belief. I say the biggest barrier is yourself, as much as people are externalities or people who can, um, pull you down. But if you don't believe in yourself, you are not. I mean it's hard hitting, pull you down, but if you don't believe in yourself, you are not. I mean it's hard hitting but you are not going to go anywhere. Yeah, but if you believe in yourself, you can self-belief.
Speaker 1:Self-belief is one um and two.
Speaker 4:I'm just going to say resilience to keep going. Life is not perfect. The people who get in, I promise you they go through hardships, the journey. I mean we had such a long time to split just a percentage of what we've been through, but through that you'd think, okay, she's not going okay, oh okay, maybe there's a chance.
Speaker 4:Okay, she's not okay, maybe there's a chance. And look, it's the thing of just continuously going. Life is not going to be perfect, but if there is, if you don't push yourself and if you don't have challenges, then it's, it's um, the fight worth it absolutely. It's the challenges makes the um award the, the um final um decision and the final reward more awarding absolutely, yeah, it's more rewarding, isn't?
Speaker 2:it yeah, when you work towards something. When you do achieve it, then you've got that sense of satisfaction exactly you know, there's no better and you learn it through the way you learn, through the way through those mistakes you just
Speaker 2:become a better person. Resilience and self-belief, thank you. Top tips belief and and what self-belief and resilience, thank you. And to you, mom, what would you say over the years when you look back and getting your children ready and taking them up? What are the two top tips that you'd have for parents to get the same sort of outcome that you've got? And I know that we've heard about your hard work and your sheer determination and your grit and tenacity, but anything that people can ask, take yeah, I'd say that word which you just mentioned determination and hope and faith.
Speaker 3:Because with determination that can move anything, it can move mountains. So, as a parent and being a solo parent I don't even call it a single parent now, but it is single and I did it by myself if you haven't got that power of mind and thought in order, and if you're not able to conceive it and believe it, you won't be able to achieve it. So that is really, really, really important. Never, ever, say to yourself it cannot happen to to yourself, it cannot happen to us, it cannot happen to me. Because, guess what, if it could happen to me, it could happen to you.
Speaker 3:Trust me, and that word, belief, is such a key word. Believe in your children. Believe in your children and work hard. I know sometimes we've got to do two or three jobs, but just take that time, even if it's at night, do your little research, absolutely and believe that there are angels around us at all times. And those angels are there. If your eyes are open, big enough to see them and your ears are clear enough to listen and to hear them, they're around and they're going to help you and, like they've helped me and my journey and I know, and there's been. It's been a journey and a half.
Speaker 2:Trust me, but you know what it's worth, every single bit of hardship, when I see and this is my dream it's worth all the sacrifice in life my goodness, we are going to stop there and I think that's just amazing how you've ended that about the journey, the self-belief, the determination, the resilience and the accepting support along the way, because, even though you know, you know you're, you're a single parent, jac Jacqueline, um, you know you've had support along the way, you've tapped into resources around you and you've made yourself sociable. So you go out and you talk to parents when there's a problem with a conflict between your daughter and another child. You just spoke to that.
Speaker 2:Parents communication, absolutely, it's the most powerful thing. Yeah, you speak, you learn, you share, you grow, you know all of this is amazing and so you know, well done. I want to say well done to you as a parent. You know the journey isn't stopping. You've got your other son, your son, not your other son, but you've got your son behind coming up yeah, mario, one day you know, once you're at university you'll have to come back again.
Speaker 2:Life at cam Cambridge and your trials and tribulations there, because there will be hard times but there will be great times. But you have got a strong foundation and that's what we all need for our children to believe in our children and to believe in our power as parents to make a difference in their lives, to set that bar really high to reach for the stars and to be unflappable. Really so, thank you, thank you and until the next episode. Thank you, thank you, bye.