Diary of a Working Woman
Passionate, hard-working, fearless Educationalist, Psychologist and mother, Johnette Barrett talks to a selection of working women who have gone through many challenging experiences, often having to undergo many conflicting roles. Johnette unravels the secrets of being a successful woman in today’s world.
Diary of a Working Woman
Judy Koloko: Pioneering High-End Hair Care for Coily, Textured, and Afro Hair
Join us for a compelling conversation with Judy Koloko, the visionary founder of The Steam Bar, as she takes us on her journey from childhood hair rituals in Nigeria to pioneering a premium hair brand for coily, textured, and afro hair. Discover how Judy's early experiences with traditional hairstyles and her professional background as a model agent working with high-profile artists laid the groundwork for her entrepreneurial success. We also discuss the universal challenges young Black girls face with hair care, shedding light on the cultural significance and emotional impact of those formative hair rituals.
Learn the strategic secrets behind launching a high-end beauty brand in iconic department stores like Selfridges and Harrods. Judy shares her invaluable insights on leveraging personal connections, the importance of impeccable timing, especially amidst the Black Lives Matter movement, and the often-ignored data on Black consumer spending power. You'll also get a glimpse into the revolutionary concept of "skinification" in hair care, where treating the scalp as skin with ingredients like hyaluronic acid can transform hair health, featuring Judy's innovative three-step ritual and unique fragrances inspired by Africa and the Caribbean.
In our final discussion, Judy opens up about the entrepreneurial hurdles she faced, from fundraising challenges to product development setbacks. Hear about the critical role of community support in her journey and the importance of fostering generational wealth and opportunities within our own communities. Judy's passion for educating the next generation about natural hair care and her unwavering commitment to empowering women of color shine throughout the episode, offering a blend of inspiration and practical advice for aspiring entrepreneurs and beauty enthusiasts alike.
A new podcast in which Johnette Barrett, educational psychologist, seeks out inspirational working women who have transformed their lives and that of others through their courageousness and compassion.
The conversations that follow are sometimes eye-opening, sometimes heart- breaking and sometimes humourous.
Diary of a Working Woman (DOAWW) is hosted by Buzzsprouts .com.
Email: diaryofaworkingwoman@yahoo.com
Instagram: doaww podcast
Website: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2227789
Hello, my name is Jonette Barrett and you're tuning in to Diary of a Working Woman, or DOA, d-o-a-w-w. Hi, I'm here today with judy koloko.
Speaker 1:What an amazing name's got such a ring to it, hi, judy. Hello jeanette.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. I am delighted that you're here. So judy is a doting mom of two children and she's also a very savvy entrepreneur, which is what brings her here today. So Judy used to work as an agent in the modeling industry before moving on to the creative industries. So, judy, before we launch into a little bit more about what you're about and your brand and everything, I'd like to take you back to the young Judy, the Judy of about of about five, six, seven or eight years of age. What life was like for you, a bit about your background, how you felt about your hair at that time, perhaps okay, okay, um.
Speaker 1:Firstly, I want to say thank you for listening, watching and thank you for having me on your podcast today. Um, as Jeanette mentioned, my name is Judy and I am the CEO and founder of the Steam Bar. You may ask what is the Steam Bar? The Steam Bar is a premium hair brand for people with coily, textured and afro hair meets a private members club. An elevated hair experience like no other where digital culture meets culture. As mentioned, my previous profession was in the fashion industry. I worked as a model agent for many years and then I went into the creative space, where I looked after some of the most sought after artists in the world, and that is where the birth of the Steam Bar, my new business, actually happened, old self. So, um, I'm of Nigerian heritage, so when I grew up as a child, my mum and my half-mum, um used to want to do my hair on a Sunday afternoon, so Sunday was the hair day, and at that time, there was a style called Fred um, probably don't know, that okay.
Speaker 1:Well, it was a style where you actually had black thread wrapped around your hair, so they would part your hair and you'll have a number of patterns, number of squares, and then they would wrap thread around it, and it was a traditional Nigerian hairstyle and it used to literally be pointing up to the sky. So you just have, like, all these legs, spider legs used to call them pointing up to the sky and on a.
Speaker 1:Monday morning we would absolutely dread my sister and I going to school with the most. I can't even tell you what it looked like, but literally we looked like aliens of some sort. So that was my five-year-old self.
Speaker 2:But that's very much sneaked in your culture.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it was Monday morning and it was like, oh my God, these spider legs are going to be taking over my life for the next few weeks. So, yeah, so literally that was me as a five-year-old. But to be honest, I, you know, have always grown up with hair being, you know, part of, you, know the beauty of you know me as a like. It's basically hair has played a big part in my life throughout. You know my whole entire life as as in from a five-year-old right through to me being an adult now, um, and it was never a space I thought I would go into. To be honest, I've always had a love of fashion, but the past few years I've somehow found myself in this world.
Speaker 2:Um, so exciting times ahead and you know, I look forward to sharing more of that with you all absolutely well that that's an amazing start and, uh, like yourself, you know, most girls, I think, regardless of what culture they they're from, have an obsession with their hair, but I think black girls in particular, because our hair was just so different to the mainstream yeah, absolutely I remember being very young, um, I had. I grew up with two of my sisters. I remember wanting. You know the long flowing down to our.
Speaker 1:You know we had a frame to our hair down to their, like Rapunzel down to their bum.
Speaker 2:And sometimes we used to put on the pillowcases and swish it and we'd do all of that.
Speaker 1:You know, we would put polo necks on, so the neck of the polo neck would be on your head and then you're swinging around, Swishing around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got your hair from it and it's like I wonder what you think about it now.
Speaker 1:How sad were we.
Speaker 2:Yes, I know I know, but that was the world then and that's what we knew. And you know, I don't think I don't know about your own parents, but you talked about tradition and Nigerian tradition and wrapping your hair in the thread. We didn't have that in the Jamaican culture as you described it, but obviously on a Sunday night before school it was hell, literally hell. Uh, we'd be there pinned between our mother's legs and knees for about two hours, getting the hair washed, combed, shrinking, pulling out and then sitting and crying through this process with very tightly coiled hair, and my mum was a no-nonsense woman and she didn't accept the crying and it was very painful, very painful experience but anyway don't let me see your tears, don't let me see your tears.
Speaker 1:Oh no, they'll be like what are you crying for? Yeah, so it's very, very it was very painful.
Speaker 2:Looking back to, um, you know hair management when we were very young. But your ambitions you've already said that hair you've always been interested in beauty, in fashion and hair didn't really feature into that. So at what point then? At what point, um, in your history and you've got a lovely, glamorous history working with these source over at source after artists in the fashion industry I mean that's amazing. I know you've met some amazing people, but at what point did you stop to think I've got an idea, there's a gap in the market and I just know what to do to fill it, or wasn't it like that?
Speaker 1:yeah, no no, absolutely so. My then CEO. She's actually now my business partner. She's got two daughters of mixed heritage, so Camilla Lauber OBE she was my boss for many, many years and she's got her daughter, adwa Adwa Boa, who is the mixed model, with freckles on her face, very short hair, also has a charity called Girls Talk, but is very much an activist and also a model and an actress. And then she's got Keswa, who is also an artist. She's more an artist as in like paints and drawers.
Speaker 2:But creative. Yeah, they're both creative.
Speaker 1:So Camilla and I used to always have conversations because for her as a Caucasian woman, she was absolutely baffled at the amount of products her daughters had in the bathroom. She used to wonder what on earth was coming out of them, because she would say, the color yeah like the density, like everything about the products her daughter was using.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she was just kind of like I don't understand how they could possibly be putting this on their hair.
Speaker 1:I would always discuss with her the fact that whenever I went to the hairdressers, it was always, not, um, something I looked forward to. I always found that I spent, you know, more time than I needed to the there was is there was a lack of professionalism there. You'd turn up and there'd be like the stylist, isn't there no hot water? The towels, towels, are still next door can't have experienced that personally.
Speaker 2:But yeah, towels are next with the laundry guy still.
Speaker 1:I mean all sorts. People are eating chicken over your head. That's the favourite one for me. Good.
Speaker 2:So I mean all sorts. Where are you?
Speaker 1:getting your hair done. I mean don't even ask, but in a nutshell we used to I think at that time see that as part of you know, when you go to a hair salon, you know that's what comes with the territory. So I used to always say to camilla you know, I'm so privileged to have stayed at some of the best hotels in the world, yeah, gone to some of the most amazing spas, ate at the best restaurants, but whenever it came to my hair it lacked that elevated experience so we kind of like used to just have conversations and then one day it just dawned on me I was like you know what we?
Speaker 1:we can see that there is actually a gap in the market, especially when it comes to products and also when it comes to hair destinations, and because at the time I used to steam my hair once a month and I used to find that going and steaming my hair really was the time that I felt I was actually really honoring and nurturing my crowd.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it was that kind of moment when I paused and I felt that I was looking after myself right. So that's where the elevated hair experience came into it, because I thought, you know, as women, regardless of what color we- are yeah we're constantly on the go and constantly like you know, being a parent, you know working, you know the all.
Speaker 1:Just like living a life, basically, but at the same time having to wear so many hats that we never really take time out for ourselves and I've got girlfriends that can go to the hairdressers at lunchtime caucasian girlfriends and they come back and they've got a blow dryer and they've got curls and I was like, within a couple of hours, yeah, and I'm like why can we never do that? I mean, I know our hair takes a lot of time, but it was like I couldn't even go to get a hair tong in my wig or wig, so that's where the idea came from. The idea. It's not a I'm not reinventing the wheel you know, it's not any.
Speaker 1:It's really actually a very simple concept and it's basically, you know, just bring into life, um, I think, a destination that is well overdue for people of color that you know why can we not go into a prime location in town yeah, even on our lunch break and have our hair done?
Speaker 1:so all of a sudden, it just dawned on us that the steam bar something that I do frequently, that when we spoke to a trichologist had said has so many benefits. Yeah, I thought you know what I'm going to bring this moment to the mainstream and enjoy this moment that I've been enjoying for many, many years that's remarkable, I mean.
Speaker 2:I think most women and increasingly more men are doing this now. I think as well, um understand the importance of esteem, and I think I grew up from the age of about 14 going to a salon. I remember being the first one in my school to have the wet look at the time and I had this amazing, um uh, stylist called Michael and I can't remember his surname, but he's, he's, he's, um, got many awards and I know he is based in London now. But um, just having steams and, like you said, just feeling as if you were really nourishing your body from inside out. So I do understand so. But so you had this idea. It was great, you, you, it came up, the personal experience for you. So what did you do next?
Speaker 1:so we well, camilla and I and another colleague, jamil, who also worked in um well, at the Great Bowery, which was the holding company for CLM. So we all started going out to lunch and kind of being like OK, what the basis of this idea, how do we move it forward? So Camilla had a friend who said I've got a brand strategic advisor. We'd worked at Boots, we'd worked on other beauty brands such as Josh Wood, and the person said have a conversation with her. So she came and met with us and we kind of gave her the overview of what our intention is and she said she'd love to come on board. So what we then did is we then started to have monthly strategic meetings. So we would, one afternoon once a month for like three or four hours, lock ourselves away and kind of get into the nuts and bolts of you know who we are, our, what our, why our, our mission, yeah, you know our brand, bible um, who is the steam bar girl.
Speaker 1:You know, there was like so much that went into it before we even started to bring the brand to life. So, to be honest, we actually um strategically consulted with her for, I'd say, like about two years before we then had to market something, not even bought it to market.
Speaker 2:It took us five years to bring it to market, yeah, so people don't see that yeah, they just see the end product and think oh you know, but the work that goes goes on behind the scenes.
Speaker 2:So it took five years to come to market. So you've got this idea, you're forming your team, people that you trust and people that you know who can bring something to the table that I'm hearing and then, um then, so you've got to the point where you've got the vision, you've got the mission, you know exactly what the brand is about and, obviously, you've got your strategic planning. So you know where you're going, hopefully. So what did you do then, in terms of marketing, because I know that you're high end.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean what happened? So we basically for I think, two and a half three years, like I said, strategy planned, but then what happened after that was that COVID and the pandemic happened, and so did Black Lives Matters, and I at the time was a director at CLM and it just dawned on me that I felt that if I didn't do it now, I would never do it, and obviously because you're working from home at the time, so you're slightly more disconnected from work than you usually would be, so it was, I think, an easier time for me to say to myself I need to leave my job, because I said to my co-founders, camilla and Jamil if I don't leave and focus on this, yeah, it's not ever going to happen.
Speaker 1:So I left in 2020, in October, november 2020, and then, since then, this has been like my baby and this has been my focus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, focus, my goodness. So did you, from the outset decide that you were going to approach top organizations like Selfridges?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, I mean it's the attention was always very clear, as in in the strategy we would do our hit list of. You know these Selfridges and Harrods would be the top tier they would be the ultimate, first go-to and then you would have you know the funnel and then you go down to like whoever it's going to be at the bottom but for us it was always going to be a Selfridges or a Harrods, and I think as well because we were quite familiar with those department stores.
Speaker 1:You know, we worked with high-end brands you know, so you're busy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you knew the people.
Speaker 1:Well, no, I didn't know the people, so my co-founder, camilla, spoke to someone and well, alana um the western family used to own Selfridges and I've got two people like Camilla knew someone that knew her well and also one of my investors knew her quite well as well so I had two. We did a double prompt, kind of attack where it was like, but about the connections, yeah the connections, yeah, I quite luckily got an email address of the guy I think at the time who was the beauty director at Selfridges and then he connected me with the girls in the beauty team.
Speaker 1:Yes, so then I went in and met with Selfridges.
Speaker 2:And at the time it was purely an idea.
Speaker 1:I didn't even have a product.
Speaker 2:I literally went in with my laptop and just said this. I didn't even realise you could do something like that. Yeah, I mean that's what whenever. I say that to people. They're like that's insane.
Speaker 1:What Literally I it in a way.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's good to have connections. It's about who you know. Yeah, there's really good connections. You're able to open a door for you. You went in with just the seed the seed in your head and your laptop. So explain, how was it just one person that you know? So there was three ladies that I pitched to.
Speaker 1:One was a buyer, one was head of beauty and the other was like director of beauty or head of whatever beauty. But there was three of them, three lovely ladies, and went into like a boardroom in Selfridges and I sat on one side of the table and they sat on the other side and then we brought the projector up and my deck came up on the screen and I basically talked them through the deck and told them about the proposition and the idea and they kind of did poker face.
Speaker 1:I had no idea what they were thinking at the end they just said we haven't seen a proposition like this in years. Please don't go and see harrods, we'd love you to launch exclusively.
Speaker 2:Yeah so that was like locked in pretty quickly and so this was locked in.
Speaker 1:I think like two years before we even bought product into store so goodness, yeah.
Speaker 2:So what was it? Do you think that they saw? I mean, they say that people buy into people by you. What's programs like dragon's den, you know? The dragons like to feel a bit of synergy with the person or the people in front of them, so do you feel that there was that instant connection, although they're different culture?
Speaker 1:to you. No, no, I felt, yeah, you know, I think I've, I've always, I am like I always say, I am the original art for dodger, I've worked in sales my whole entire life. So I have always managed people and negotiated and literally pitched. I'm always pitching like we travel the world with a portfolio before and pitch and sell our artists to people. So I'm quite well versed and know how to sell.
Speaker 1:So ultimately that day I went in there and I sold the steam bar to them. So it wasn't for me something that I was uncomfortable with. I've done it time and time again, but obviously I'm a lot more passionate. This time, because it's my brand I'm selling and I think like I connected, like I just got a great energy, the enthusiasm from them afterwards and even, you know, up till now I've got a great relationship with the girls there.
Speaker 1:If there's anything that I don't feel is going according to plan or, you know, I need my hand holding in some instances. They are fantastic women. To be honest, when I initially went in, it was just purely products, and then they offered us the space as well, so the space which is the salon, that's a pop up in there at the moment.
Speaker 2:Which we will talk about afterwards. Yeah, so do you think there's a pop-up in there at the moment, which we will talk about afterwards? Yeah, but yeah, so do you think there's a? Do you think it's about timing as well?
Speaker 2:because obviously you've mentioned yourself, you know, during lockdown and just after lockdown, there's a whole new focus now on black lives and so the black agenda seems to be gaining more traction, you know, yeah, so do you think there's an element of, yes, this, um, you know the, uh know, black hair care is underrepresented and we do need to start doing something about this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think like yeah, because in your last question you did say you did ask something that what was the? Why do they buy into it? I do think it was timing. Yeah, I definitely think it was timing. I think there's a lot of data out there as well showing the black people spending power. It was shown, especially in beauty and hair, that we spend six times compared to our Caucasian counterparts.
Speaker 2:So can you imagine.
Speaker 1:I mean there's the Mintel report, there's the McKenzie report, there's so many reports where it's really clear data that we spend so much and, to be honest, a lot of the data isn't even picked up, because we spend a lot in Asian um stores, such as packs and charlie's and things like that, where data is not really recorded and sometimes you know you're in shops and you're paying cash and that's definitely data's not getting picked up there. So I think one it was definitely timely because with Black Lives Matters, there was a big awareness of you. We're an underserved community everywhere in the world. So everyone started to talk about things and areas where we were underserved. But I think as well, at the same time, even though it's a premium hair brand for people of colour, our brand Skincare for the Scalp. So at the moment, skinification, which is one of the biggest hair care trends at the moment, meets the art of steaming, which is our approach, is very much.
Speaker 1:Uh, you know, we're being trailblazers and pioneers in a space, so people always like newness and when people have got new ideas, yeah so ultimately, even though I say it's for coily textured afro hair, you know, 80 of our clientele at the moment in selfridges are actually of middle eastern descent um, we've got, you know, a lot of people from south as Asia, because steaming is quite a well-known practice there, buying into the products as well. And I've just got a lot of Caucasian women that have said I've always used hair products for people of colour because I tend to find there's more hydration and moisture when I use products.
Speaker 2:That's interesting. I was thinking about this, you know, and I was preparing for this interview, because obviously you've positioned yourself in selfages, high end, high end. I would go far as far as saying that maybe the vast majority of black women would not instantly think of selfages or harrods when they're thinking about their hair care. They would go to their local salon get their steam some have their own steams steaming and you know steams at home and all sorts of things you know. So it's interesting, therefore, that you mentioned that a lot of your clients are middle eastern. Middle easterns tend to have more money. You know they do. They've just got the resources. Um, so are you going to be meeting the need of those that you had in mind when you had the vision?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, the thing is people of colour actually tend to be the hardest people to convert. You know, like you can read in all reports, like we find we've got a lot of distrust as well when it comes to people with our hair. Because, you know, we've got relaxers that have got things like sodium hydroxide which have been connected with cancers and endometriosis, got relaxers that have got things like sodium hydroxide which have been connected with cancers and endometriosis, and I don't know, it's just I don't have no idea why, but sometimes as well you'll find a caucasian or indian person could probably get a black person to buy into them, whereas when you're trying to convince your own, they feel that there's some weird kind of I don't know what they think. And I mean when I'm in selfridges once I I speak to a Nigerian like most African people really buy into it.
Speaker 1:They're just like it's a black founded brand. You know everything about the brand is in luxury and they are like super, super like supportive as well, I think the catch is there is so many, because when you're in Selfridges. I mean you'll be surprised at the amount of people of color. The footfall is like phenomenal. Like they're in there shopping, they're spending a lot.
Speaker 2:So it's not like they're not in there. They're in there, but they're just choosing not to buy it. So that's the thing it's like. Actually, there are plenty of them.
Speaker 1:So it's exposure and awareness, it's more awareness, and that's what we're doing now, and especially now the salons open you, you're getting um the actresses, you're getting people from all walks of life that have got disposable cash, that kind of well.
Speaker 1:I've always been looking for an experience like this so it is all about brand awareness, but I know at the same time that that's why, funnily enough, we've launched in selfridges, we've got our own d2c. My focus is not on the uk so much because we tend to be followers, so if the us say, it's amazing if someone else yeahs say it's amazing. To be honest, we're actually gonna go out and come back in, so it will do that whole 360 don't joke too soon.
Speaker 2:We're gonna stop for a minute and have a little bump. Please don't take it away from us. We want to own it. We want to own it. Hi, I'm here again with judy koloko from the steam bar.
Speaker 2:Hi, judy hello hello okay, so I think what we've done in the first part, we talked a little bit about your history, your background, your childhood aspirations in terms of the fashion industry and modeling and all the rest of that, but we also talked about how your own personal experience of taking care of your hair really planted a seed in your head in terms of what sort of experience you want to feel in terms of a premium experience, when you go to have your hair done. We talked about your personal experiences of going to have your hair done in local salons, where maybe they weren't as professional as we would like, and how. Now you've got this space. You've got this prestige brand. You've caught people's eye.
Speaker 2:People in the industry are looking at you and your brand and what you're going to achieve. So you mentioned that sometimes you know, as black people, we're slower to follow and, as British people as well, we can be followers rather than leaders, and your brand is innovative. You're actually at the cutting edge of this. So just tell us a little bit more about, I think, scalp care and what's behind that and why it's so important scalp care and what's behind that and why it's so important.
Speaker 1:Okay, so when we came up with the idea of the steam bar, initially it was actually going to be focusing all on steaming we got connected with a number of trichologists and a formulator I was working with at the beginning referred me to Ian Salas, and he's actually the director of the college of Trichology, sits on a lot of boards, does a lot of speaking about scalp care, and when we met with him he came to London he actually lives outside London, I think it's Crewe. He lives Well, he lives up north and he came down for the day and he met with me and my co-founders and we all sat down and had a brainstorming session.
Speaker 2:And that's when he shared with us skinification and we thought have you made?
Speaker 1:that word up skinification and he was like do you not know about skinification?
Speaker 2:never heard of it.
Speaker 1:Well, skinification is um when you basically use skincare products, or ingredients, rather, that are usually found in skincare products, in your hair care products. So you've got ingredients such as hyaluronic acid. You've got glycerin. You've got babo tree. You've got ingredients such as hyaluronic acid, you've got glycerin. You've got babotri. You've got a lot of ingredients that you'd usually find in your creme de la mer. You know your serums, your moisturizers. We've actually put these ingredients in our shampoos, conditioners and masks.
Speaker 2:So what exactly is this doing so?
Speaker 1:when we talk about skinification, or rather skincare for the scalp scalp, we're essentially cleansing hydrating and moisturizing.
Speaker 2:So that's three-step process. Yeah, so that same ritual that you've got.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for your skin you should be doing with your scalp, because ultimately, scalp is skin yes, absolutely so what we have got is we got a shampoo in. In fact, I should have brought some products with me.
Speaker 2:Oh, you should have done and I should have had them in my hand. Oh, that would have been great. Yes, I should have been showing them to you as I was talking you through them.
Speaker 1:So we have the shampoo. Yeah, and shampoo is basically the start of your ritual, so you would say that's your cleanser. So we have got ingredients in our shampoos that are actually cleansing and hydrating. Yeah, so we're starting with the cleanse, and this shampoo will clarify, get rid of any toxins, any build-up of anything that may be sitting on the scalp. Then we go into the conditioner. The conditioner is from tip, root to tip, so this is making sure that you're hydrating everything from right, from the root right down, sorry, right from the tip right down to the last bit of the hair.
Speaker 1:Basically, then we've got the, we've got this um, save your mask. So the save your mask is actually our hero product. In this mask we've actually got an exfoliant. So when you put this steaming mask on, we buy your steaming cap in salon. We do it under one of those big steaming contractions. But what happens here is that when you put heat on your scalp, the pores in the scalp open, so this allows the penetration of all the highly active ingredients that we've got in the saving mask to really benefit, really penetrate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the scalp at its best, as in like the scalp is like ready for the takings, like all those amazing ingredients that you've got. You've got your avocado oils, your coconut oils, you've got some fantastic oils that are putting back all that the scalp needs to help to regulate the scalp's microbiome and, at the same time, exfoliating, getting rid of any toxins or any build-up.
Speaker 1:Those would be the three rituals, basically, so you're cleansing height and yeah, moisturizing, hydrating and moisturizing the moisturizing is with the mask, and then you've got your leave-in moisturizer, which will be your serum. So the serum is the last product. It's not a wet product. It's the only product you don't wash out, and it's a leave-in serum. The amazing thing with the serum is that it's an aqueous-based serum. So, wig wearers, if you want to save your edges, this is your go-to product, because in this we've got a microbiome. So a microbiome is all about regulating the scalp's pH level.
Speaker 1:So it's making sure that the scalp is producing natural oils, all of these things that will go on to hydrate and moisture the scalp. So this is something that I this was actually the product that I use that actually saved my hairline, so used it for, I would say, nine months. Every other night I would put it on my scalp. The beauty of this is, as it's water-based, you don't have to worry about any oil on the pillar.
Speaker 1:You can literally put your headscarf straight back on. Afterwards you can even just put your wig straight back on, because it literally dissolves straight into your skin it sounds remarkable.
Speaker 2:I mean, is it? Um? Is there anything out there? No, that's similar to this in the market.
Speaker 1:I mean you could say this hair of mine, which is cindy harvey, she's created a serum and but that is the standalone product. That she's created and, I think, a lot of people are going into serums that are not oil-based right because people don't realize that oil actually blocks the pores in the scalp.
Speaker 1:And then what we do do what we do with our children, with our young children we're all their scalp because when I first started, using the serum because it literally dissolves into the scalp I used to look at my scalp and I'll be like my scalp looks dry. Yeah, but literally when I would go to the hairdresser, the hairdresser would say to me your hair has never felt so soft and your scalp? Has never looked so good so it's funny, as, in you know, we've been conditioned to believe our scalp should be shy like you say yeah, not realizing that it's actually causing more damage.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, and then I to say as well.
Speaker 1:We worked with a renowned nose. So we worked with a lady called Azzy Glasser she's got her own line called the Perfume Story, but she's a renowned nose and we worked with her over four to five months and we created a bespoke scent for all our products. So all of our products have got a fragrance which is a nod to Africa. We got notes such as oud wood, amber petula, and the inspiration was when you arrive, be it in the Caribbean, be it in Africa, when you get off the plane, and that heat hits you and you can feel that earthy hot smell.
Speaker 2:So I mean it's absolutely insane. It's so beautiful, it's really stunning. Under a shower you're like, oh my God, oh my goodness, I can smell it now. I can't believe I've got no products but they can go out and get the products and they're not for you, but I will come.
Speaker 2:I'm always in selfishness but I will come and I'll get some products. But that is amazing. So the scents, everything. It's a really well thought out brand and I'm really liking the comparison with your skincare routine, because we're all now, we're all familiar, especially women of a certain age, of the. You know the skincare, the cleansing, you know the exfoliation, the moisturizing. We do that routinely. We just know you get up, you brush your teeth and it's all part of the process. But to apply that to the hair it's you know the hair's been and scalp's been unloved yeah, exactly, and all of that been unloved.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think, like you said, like to be honest, it's quite funny because when people come into selfridges and they say what would be like if I had to buy one of these products. What would you buy? And I always say to them funny enough, buy the shampoo, get an amazing cleanser, an amazing shampoo, so that what that's the first you know, port of call when you start your hair journey, when you're going to, wash it as long as you've cleansed your scalp and you've made sure that you prepped your scalp for whatever's coming next that is the best thing that you could possibly do for your hair.
Speaker 2:Like I say to people like, get rid of anything that's on that scalp that could be causing any irritation. Premium shampoo yeah, that's informed by science, because you've got the topologist. Yeah, exactly you know your natural ingredients and leading you talk about the microbiome of the hair. We hear about the microbiome of the gut Exactly.
Speaker 1:That's why it's probiotic for the gut and prebiotic for the, so it's part p-r-e-b-i-o-t-c for the prebiotic for the right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they're like prebiotic and probiotic, so people are like it's funny. In fact, my um operational guy would always be it's like it's not a pre, but it's not a probiotic. It's a prebiotic, yeah, like. So what's the difference between? A pre one is like what can be digested as in, in, like, you know, like you'll have kefir and you have all those things that have got like probiotic in it. Yes, that's right. And you can even get probiotic like the Simprobe and all of those Yep, yep, so they're ingested, yeah.
Speaker 1:And the other one's like it's going into ingredients.
Speaker 2:You heard it. You've learned something new so well. I've learned something new so well.
Speaker 1:I. What would you?
Speaker 2:say, because the Diary of the American Woman is very much about business as well. You know business women who have actually, I don't know, just thought outside of their lane a little bit, just been a bit more enterprising in the way that they look at things. So for me, I'm just thinking about, with your um, with this whole journey, what have been the main obstacles and challenges, because there'll be people who'll be listening, be thinking oh, you know, it's been easy for her. She knows the people, you know she got the contact in suffrages, yeah. Yeah, she was able to give up work to focus on this. A lot of people can't afford to give up. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:So you have. You've been in a privileged position, one might say. But what have been the challenges? Because there would have been challenges.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's been challenges. There's been challenges as in, like you spend money that you don't need to like. To be honest, it starts with the ultimate is money. You know, we had to fundraise quite early on. So obviously, me and my co-founders, we put quite a substantial amount of money from our own accounts into the business. Then we had to go out and fundraise. So that was. You know, at the time I didn't even have a product convincing people to buy into an idea to be honest, it was easier than it is now, when you've got a prototype, did you?
Speaker 1:we didn't even have a prototype, I literally had my laptop and I mean we've been lucky, we've got like famous, a famous footballer who you've got jordan dunn haven't you? Yeah, jordan dunn, but that says the face of the brand just just just be.
Speaker 2:Jordan dunn gorgeous, stunning jordan, dunn the face of your brand, oh my goodness, so we had like I think I'm quite lucky because I had some great mentors.
Speaker 1:So we've had people like natalie massonet, founder of netta porte she was a mentor at the beginning.
Speaker 1:I've got quite a few people that are either in VCs, asset management, um PE world who were quite, quite involved in you know what the forecast and how we scale a business. Um, I've got um someone in the US that is also it's like a high net finance business and they look after some of the highest net worth individuals in the US and they are very much always sending us data, keeping us informed on trends, helping us to scale the business. But ultimately it was always money. Money was a huge thing. It was also, you know, we spent a lot of money on the very first formulator and we worked with him for a number of months and unfortunately it he didn't get the memo so it just didn't go right, and so we lose money there, right?
Speaker 1:we've had things like products being stuck on the sea with what's going on in the world so yeah so products be stuck on sea. In the summer we got news that there had been a typhoon in china and some of our caps that were coming to london were stuck in China. I mean, there were so many things that got pushed back so there's so many things that are really out of your control, um, and it's just like just continuously convincing people to believe in you because you're a startup. So everything's proof of concept metrics.
Speaker 2:Everyone wants to see numbers, so I mean, there's so many things and and, even like managing people.
Speaker 1:I've got a salon managing people in the salon and obviously I don't come from beauty.
Speaker 2:So I'm continuously learning on the journey. So, but it's amazing, I mean, I love it. I've never been so fulfilled when it comes to my work life as I am now.
Speaker 1:So it's all good, but there are so many adversities and sometimes I actually go to my bed at night and think why. What possessed me like that. I think most entrepreneurs probably go through that. No, no, no, like literally. You are really like what possessed me.
Speaker 2:I had such a great job before I got paid so much money before.
Speaker 1:And now I actually have no money in my bank.
Speaker 2:I don't know how I'm going to pay salaries at the reality of running a business. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the reality. You start with a tiny seed, you grow, you build your team, you build your brand, you get great business mentors, form your alliances, you know, get your connections in place globally and believe, even from you, that you believed in yourself.
Speaker 2:Even when all the adversities were there. All the challenges were there. You've got confidence. You exude confidence. You say you know very little about the beauty industry, but you've got presence and confidence and obviously you've got lots of other skills going for you and you've got connectivity. You've got that. You've got that likable nature and it helps it does. I think those sort of things really help.
Speaker 1:But lining your bed at night and reflecting on your journey, what you need to do, the obstacles you've just kept going yeah, that determination yeah, yeah, like honestly, um people say the resilience and tenacity, yeah, but um, for me, like I said, sometimes I'm like, oh my god, I don't even know how or why but the thought can just be there for a minute and it just passes and you're just kind of like I'm on this, I'm not, it's human, you're only human yeah, you are, but I'm like you've so got this judy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you haven't come this far to fail, and absolutely, and it's not even about the fame, because you learn like you speak to people day in, day out and so many people that have done phenomenal stuff now sometime in their life failed yeah, so from the failure failure, there are always lessons learned anyway. So sometimes I mean, I'm not gonna lie, there's things that have kind of gone wrong like really wrong and you know even with my co-founders, like we battle against ideas and we have conflicting versions of how the business should be but um, that's part and parcel of it, absolutely.
Speaker 2:You know you grow and you evolve and you get stronger. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you, just you know you know what you're you know, you know, and it's funny because, like I said, we're early on in our journey but all of these things and all these adversities, now they're like probably quite trivial to what's going to come further down the line, so when I even like, sometimes I don't know someone in the office I'm like there's going to be a big boss that's going to come in and be even 10 times more annoying than that person, so it kind of just prepares you really for you
Speaker 1:know all these different personalities and people that you'll meet on your journey.
Speaker 2:But on that you know I. I just want to pick up on something you said. So there might be a big boss, something may come in that's going to a bigger challenge, bigger than you've ever faced before in this business. We know that often when we have ideas, a birth of an idea, you develop your brand. It's good, it's innovative, people are, it's gaining attention that sometimes the big people, the big boys out there, can like what they see. They've got the kudos, they've got the money. You said money is a big, you know can be a big problem. Yeah, how would you feel if, a year or two down the line, when you establish globally a big company where it preps you to buy off you?
Speaker 2:oh, yeah, no, no, I've already had like yeah, two or three meetings, absolutely some big strategic. How would you think?
Speaker 1:about and at the moment I'm not ready to get acquired so there's no point me selling my business to anyone at such an early stage because the valuation is like my business will be sold, but it's worth a billion dollars yeah and not before then.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so we have, and it's also kind of you know?
Speaker 1:quite an interesting question, because people also say to me what do you think if someone came and lit your idea and I always say to people do you know how many people exist in the world?
Speaker 2:like I have.
Speaker 1:I am literally like bring it on, because I know who I am and I know what I'm doing and you know how hard it works, and I'm like, if they want to do it, good luck and good for you, because I cannot solve every hair issue that is in the world.
Speaker 2:So bring it on. I think, if you don't mind me saying that, you've got a great way of looking at it, you know great mindset in that regard and I would just say you know, sometimes I feel really sad. There's been some really big brands that I won't mention in America, us-based brands that have got big, and not just in the beauty industry, but have sold their business, their black owned business, and then we look at it and we think you know why don't black, more black people own their own businesses? And the ones who do make it and make a big um, a big dent in the industry sell it and then it's no longer black owned.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a cycle, isn't it? It is a cycle, but I think the sad thing is and not so much in the us.
Speaker 1:It's there's a lot more awareness, but even when I was pitching the hardest people to pitch to to get them to invest with black people. So once again it goes back to, you know, educating and also where we are in the world. As you, you know, investing has been something that Caucasian people I mean probably they're say, you know, 90% of investors or VCs are probably Caucasian people in the whole entire world. I mean, I wouldn't say I think we're probably like 1%, but maybe more, because in the US now they've got a lot of people that have got funds and are VCs and our VCs.
Speaker 2:But I think what happens is people, once you kind of get to know what's going on within the business, you start to understand that for businesses to scale you have to bring on investors yeah to people you can't be doing this for your entire life, like people say to me and I kind of am like I've got X amount of years and after that, if a black person's not going to come and buy, my brand.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to be not selling it.
Speaker 2:So I'm just being honest, that is unfortunately the reality. I think that's the reality and I think that's fair enough. I think what it is, I think not many of us in that position that we can understand. Yeah, absolutely Like you say, shea.
Speaker 1:Moisture is a prime example. I think they got bought what was it? By Procter Gamble. I know a few, yeah, but everyone then complained like oh, the formulation became less, whatever.
Speaker 2:X, Y, Z, because that's what happens?
Speaker 1:ingredients start to get forward, like you know, like because people when the MOQ like the cog, like it could be like the cog was five pounds. So this is like the formulation. Like it could be like the cog was five pounds. So this is like the formulation, everything to make that that bottle cost me five pound and as it scales or gets sold, the new business is like I want that bottle to now cost me three pound.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, whatever's in there, you've got to make it for three pounds. So that's kind of like yes, and that's the dynamics, and it's kind of like unfortunately, that is just business, that's just kind of like you know, someone has a restaurant and they have one restaurant and it's amazing.
Speaker 1:And then you go to all these others and you're like, oh my god, the restaurant food is so crap now, because once you start to grow and scale, that's what happens. There is that place of like. We want to keep it as it is, but we don't want to spend.
Speaker 2:It's just kind of like you can't everywhere and you can't and, as you say, you're going to be evolving yourself and the brand. You would have left a legacy, even if someone does, further down the line, you decide to sell onto someone else who may not have the same sort of vision. They may say they do when you're selling it to them, but then you know it transpires that they've. You know you would have left a legacy. Yeah, you would have, you know, impacted the lives of millions, exactly. So that's really good. So we're going to be drawing to a close in a little while. It's been great having you, but I think it'd be really good if we could think about, or you could share, five tips. Five tips for women of colour in terms of the maintenance of their hair and scalp. In fact, I'm going to change that slightly.
Speaker 2:I want you to talk to the, not the people of a certain age who may be set in certain ways but to talk to the young 16, 17, 18, 19-year-olds who may not be thinking about their hair care I think you know what?
Speaker 1:it's a thing that everyone has a different journey. So it's kind of also. I don't like. I spoke about it recently. We had a girl who came into salon, julia Sartre-Moi. She's the fashion director at Vogue and she and I've known her for years. I was her agent at one time. And she usually has a fro.
Speaker 1:She has an afro know, for years I was her agent at one time and she usually has a fro yeah, she has an afro, yeah, and she came in and she had a silk press and her look hair looked insane. It looks absolutely amazing she never had a silk press in her life and people trolled her. They were like we can see your white hair. Why are you trying to look like a white woman? Why are you straightening up your hair?
Speaker 2:we liked you because you were coily, I mean, the things were insane, and so I like had a little bit of a moment on TikTok and I said you know what? Why do you?
Speaker 1:especially, I mean on top of it. You look at the people that are making the comments and you're like but you've got the biggest wig on your head ever, or you've got the worst hair, like you know, like I mean the people are actually trolling. You actually need to say you need to check yourself first before you start talking about other people. But in a nutshell, it's I think that whatever state you want to wear your hair in, wear it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Your hair does not define you, Like if you have your hair in a wig or Afro, whatever, it's not. It doesn't tell us anything about you.
Speaker 1:It's just simply.
Speaker 2:This is a way of expressing my hair, that I love and it's fine, so I always just say, like one, in fact, that would be it.
Speaker 1:It's like, whatever you feel you want to do to your hair, yeah, do it. Do it because no one is here to judge you, and if that is going to make you feel good about yourself, then do it, because I think the important thing is that it's all about self-love and self-care, so whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so anything. No one's walked in your footsteps, you know no one's walked in your shoes no one knows your journey. No one knows what you're experiencing at the time, what you've been through. Yeah, you should be able to express yourself wherever, however the hell you like.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:And if you don't like it, then look away. Exactly.
Speaker 1:Look away. Exactly, absolutely, jeanette. You nailed it Right on the spot. Secondly, I would say you know? Another tip is coily textured afro hair, especially if you're a four abc girl, is work as in. It's not easy. We should never see our hair as a problem, but we just need to know that sometimes our hair will take longer than other people.
Speaker 1:So it's just loving your coils and your and not feeling that. You know we have to relax our hair, we have to hide our hair. It's fine to love it, but I always say that just take note that hair that we have is harder to manage. So that would definitely be one thing, just like love your coils and curls, but just be aware that it needs an extra bit it needs a little bit more love than maybe yeah time exactly then caucasian hair.
Speaker 1:Another thing would be just be like when it comes to chemicals on the hair. You know well for me, if you are going to put chemicals on your hair, because it's a bit of a kind of scenario where my hairdressers will say no-transcript going to a good hairstylist, and you know, just basically in a nutshell, care for it.
Speaker 1:You know, make sure you're sleeping with some protective hair covering, just take care of your hair. The other thing I always say is you know what and just to take note and advice is there's more than just products that you put on your hair that will impact on your hair health. You know we've got things like stress levels. We've got hormones. You know I'm perimenopausal at the moment, so my hair one time I'm like my hair feeling good, next time it's feeling dry like. So it's kind of like bearing in mind that, you know, even from our diet, you know our supplements there's so much that will complement your hair journey.
Speaker 1:So be mindful of it's not just going to happen with products and it's definitely not just going to happen overnight. So patience really is a virtue here. And I think is that four. I think I've got one more. What would the last one be?
Speaker 1:The last one would be if you have children, please make sure that you from a young, or make sure that they from a young age, don't see their hair as problematic. That we kind of grow up now and like, from an early age, condition our children to know that their coils are beautiful. You know, I think we grew up because we had quite traumatic experiences and even our parents then struggled because they didn't know our hair so well. So I think it's really important that we, the younger generation, the generation coming up after us, are fully in love and embracing. You know we're black, we're people of colour, you know we've got different hair textures. Sometimes it can take a lot of time, but it's something that we should always make sure that they grow up knowing but loving at the time and at the same time try and make that. You know, from three to you know they get to 13 and they're probably or even 11 now and they're like.
Speaker 1:I know what I want to do with my hair but try and kind of like make that middle time in their life that they really enjoy their hair and they're loving their hair.
Speaker 2:So I think I like, I like all of that. Those tips are amazing, and I think the last one in particular about just educating your, your children. You know, especially, you know so boys as well. Boys are wearing their hair. But just just educating them, because I think that was missing when but certainly when I was a child, and as a result of that, sometimes you put too much, you know, stress on your hair when you're already doing stressful jobs or yeah studying, and you may go to salons that may not take care of your hair.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, you may get breakage. You may ignore what's happening and, um, you know, I think you just need to be, if you're doing the three-step regime that you talked about in terms of, you know, cleansing and moisturizing your hair and your scalp, and you're just more mindful of it because it's more automatic, like as much um automaticity as brushing your teeth then you are going to be more in tune with what your scalp's doing, how your hair's looking and that you know and that I think could prevent problems later later on in life.
Speaker 1:You know what we do early on has a huge, as you you probably know and I know, yeah, like what I did, probably in my teens, early 20s, has impacted my hairline and other things absolutely, absolutely and I think, but I think, I think now, I think the children today, women today, are definitely more aware oh god, they're so much more products than ever before on the market and they're and they're very much like focused on ingredients as well, which is good that they are a lot more aware of.
Speaker 2:You know certain things that they actually the chemicals that you know the damaging effects of chemicals that we didn't know back then and that are impacting today yeah, absolutely, and I just think you know great and it's amazing that you know you have what you're walking in this space, that you're educating us, and I know that I've read that you know when you go into the steam bar you'll get whole experience and holistic, as well an educational experience to just walk us through that. So what's going to happen when?
Speaker 1:you're walking, let me okay. So my strap line is what lies beneath. So when you come into the salon, you'll see a strap line, what lies beneath, and that's very much, because I think wig wearers and weave wearers have very much been neglected. When it comes, I mean, you'll have all these expensive wigs and weaves, but then what you should be doing underneath to protect it from breakage has always been something that no one's ever paid much attention to. So my strap line is what lies beneath, which is talking to the wig wearers, the weave wearers, the plait wearers, to say honor your crown. Yeah, that you know. We wear all these expensive wigs and weaves, yet when we take off our wigs, a lot of people don't even want to show their crown.
Speaker 1:So it's kind of like I'm not saying don't wear protective hair coverings, but I'm just saying our crown is so important, you know it is so important and we should love ourselves as much without our wigs and weaves and I think if we've got a broken hairline we're not really gonna really be really feeling ourselves as much as we should be so when you come into the salon. It's very much a holistic approach. So we've got the absolutely fantastic girls which are the steam queens.
Speaker 1:They all got trained for the steam queens, yeah very nice they all got trained by um ian sallis, who is our trichologist, and he came down and did a training week with them. We also had a renowned hairdresser come in and train them as well for a few days. So the training program was quite intense and we also wanted to make sure that they very much come on the journey and are well versed when it comes to products and exactly what the benefits are of our treatments. So you'll arrive in Selfridges third floor and you will be ushered into the space. The Steam Queen will. First of all, we've got an opportunity if you want to have a scalp analyst. So we've actually got a machine where they will look at your scalp and they can feed back to you what exactly is going on with your scalp that's amazing.
Speaker 2:So that's even before you start doing anything. They can look at your scalp exactly. Technology exactly. Tell me about it. This is something that your local salon probably won't know exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah so then we then can talk you through. You know you, because a lot of the time people have bought, booked whatever it is, and then you talk them through like this is what you booked today, this is what will be happening sometimes. You find people then sometimes want to switch because they'll be like oh, I didn't know, there was a steam like a deluxe steam.
Speaker 1:I'll rather go for the deluxe steam than the actual scalp scrub yeah so that's when you have the opportunity to, we can say upsell, yeah, but basically it's like there's an offering of x, y and z. You'd make sure that you have had a good consultation with whoever's in that chair, because we don't want anyone to say there was any confusion or they didn't understand. So for us, that initial you know 15-20 minutes when your customer arrives in the chair is probably the most important because, that is where you as well know or get an idea of where they are with their hair journey as well so, depending on what it is that you pick as a service, you will then put on one of our beautiful steam bar gowns and our queens will literally have you there and show your crown so much love.
Speaker 1:So there's the option of you know, either having our um signature steam, which is the basically it's the scalp savior mask, but in salon we have a more intense version which can only be used by a professional and can only be used under the steamer. So there is, that's our signature, and a lot of people are absolutely coming in and like I mean your scalp afterwards and your hair afterwards, like is like absolutely and a lot of people, funny enough, are either coming in like with their natural hair.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of silk presses because for some weird reason, when you steam the hair of our products, people that have regular silk presses and said their hair is never felt.
Speaker 2:I mean their hair is literally like this. I'm just kind of like that's black hair and it's looking like that.
Speaker 1:So I think, like I said, almost what's whatever's in our um steaming products is prepping your hair for whatever's coming next, because the finishes, yes, of whatever people have afterwards is absolutely amazing. So the whole experience is I mean you'll come in. Experience is I mean you'll come in and, like I said, you'll be talked through everything that's in the products exactly what's going to happen when you're in the chair today, given other options in case you like. Oh, I didn't realize you have that option.
Speaker 1:So it's very much like well thought out, like I said you feel like you've got a major deal, so it's an experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you want like food.
Speaker 1:There's like a menu and there's a restaurant right next door.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, they go, you can bring you the menu.
Speaker 1:You can pick your food, you can get these.
Speaker 2:Everyone's obsessed with the lattes. I know exactly so, exactly so, yeah, so, oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's really lovely like people love it, and we've also got very quickly an event series which will be coming in a few months. Hopefully we we will do this in June and it's basically a space where we will. It will be a safe space where our community can come in and listen to. It could be keynote speakers, kols. First one is possibly going to be people in media and it's where we have people of colour talk to us about their journey and there will be adversities, but we want. This is all about giving you know the community, the tools, yeah, and the knowledge that, if it is a space or a profession you want to go into, this is kind of what could possibly happen on your journey, but it's all about storytelling we want people to come in, yeah, and be aspirational, and then we'll have next week something on, you know, nutrition, and then we're gonna have something.
Speaker 2:So that's constant education yeah, yeah, that's that? That's amazing, yeah that sounds.
Speaker 1:It sounds like a dream and we are out of time.
Speaker 2:But I know, judy, I can talk forever you've spoken about what your plans are for beyond england, because I know that you're going to, you're looking at atlanta, you're looking at america, you're looking at, you know, but maybe I can get you back in another time, you know. But I know you made the, you made the um. I think you made the point of saying that in this country, we tend to follow you going to go to somewhere like america, who are more leaders, you know, pioneering pioneering as a company, sorry, as a country, um, but you know, I just think we just need greater awareness. Guys, you have heard today, um, how important it is for women of color, but I'm also reaching out to, uh, non-black people as well, because a lot of um you know white and european women who, um, would benefit from this, yeah, you know absolutely, who wear extensions and weaves themselves and wear wigs all the time.
Speaker 1:I mean we've got cancer sufferers, we've got lots of people. Yeah, in fact, steaming is actually better for Caucasian hair because of the porosity that hair type can deal with water better than ours, so steaming is actually really beneficial, especially if people have got colour in their hair as well.
Speaker 2:Well, there you are, and I'm thinking about the whole cancer patients, all of that. It just ticks so many boxes and I just want to congratulate you for this amazing brand. I'm so proud of you as another black business owner and I'm wishing you all the best. If you have liked what you've heard from Judy today from the Steam Bar, I really want you to like this episode. Please follow the Duo podcast. Please go to Salvage's and visit Judy's Steam Bar on the third floor and get star treatment?
Speaker 2:yeah, exactly, and if you haven't got the time to get the star treatment, at least go and get the product yeah, you can do it in there.
Speaker 1:Come over to your own home. That's what it's all about. That that's the concept. If you can't come into salon, you can still do this this salon experience at home. Just get the quality, research led and scientific based products and we need you to come on the journey, because that's what this is about.
Speaker 2:This is about you know our community, elevating each other and generational wealth and you know, creating our own.
Speaker 1:And the only way things like this can survive is if your community supports it Absolutely Well.
Speaker 2:I'm supporting you here today, jodie. Thank you so much, jessica. And yeah, when you go to Atlanta, please remember we're actually going somewhere else first, are you? Well, you just make sure I get my ticket, my ticket to join you. I love that, yeah, but joking aside, it's been a real pleasure to do this.
Speaker 1:It's a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2:Thanks for coming and the best of luck. I know you're going to go really far with this. Thank you, darling. Okay, see ya, see ya, thank you, you.